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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

OFFICIAL MNHQ THREAD on posts about suicide, troll-hunting and related matters

833 replies

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:10

Hello

There have been so many threads about this over the past few days, and so many divergent points of view - and so much upset - that we'd really like to have the discussion in one place rather than in many different threads all over the boards.

For those who haven't heard yet: we are actively reviewing our policy about threads regarding suicidal feelings and suicidal intent. We are seeking expert input from outside organisations including the Samaritans. Once we have that we will come back and have a further discussion with MNers about the way forward.

We'll be here to talk on the thread throughout the day, but do please note that we WILL delete troll-hunting posts for all the obvious reasons. So PLEASE do not use this thread to make insinuations about identifiable posters - keep it general please.

Re: Wombat: we understand that some reporters had concerns, but at the same time this poster had been around for years with a very consistent posting history. We absolutely do not have any concrete reason to disbelieve her. However, her thread had been immensely upsetting and triggering for many users, and has prompted a site-wide discussion about how we handle these threads. Once her husband had posted that she was at home with him and under the care of RL professionals it really seemed best all round to delete the thread.

We contacted Wombat at the time to explain our deletion and we still feel that for many very good reasons this is best sorted out off-board between us and her; we've asked her again to reply to our email and we will happily take it from there.

We also think that this whole case is a very good illustration of why we have no-trollhunting rules. We understand that some of you find them frustrating, but for every correct troll-call, there's an incorrect one. Being called a troll in public when you're giving an honest account of deeply upsetting real-life circumstances can be devastating for people.

Equally, we do 'get' that there are a lot posters and threads at the moment that seem deeply suspicious. We are on the front foot with this and have been being pretty pro-active at closing things down when they are reported to us and when we can see that things aren't adding up, particularly if they are new users.

So we need you to keep reporting and NOT break troll-hunting rules on the boards unless MNHQ itself has said publicly that we are confident that someone was a deliberate trouble-maker.

The namechange/sock-puppeting thing is extremely easy for us to spot when it's reported. It's not a judgement call - it's black and white and it's the work of a moment for us to spot it and deal with it.

OP posts:
MrsVamoOOOOOOOOOOs · 23/10/2014 17:02

Yes, but Worra if you are here often enough you get to know who the silly goady people are, and goady titles etc.

The answer always is, don't click on the thread. Smile

Momagain1 · 23/10/2014 17:05

MaryZ

I'm also a bit pissed off at the assumption that anyone who doubts any op at all about any detail is a troll-hunter and a bully

Not that anyone who doubts any OP is a troll-hunter and a bully. Just those who feel the need to call the OP out as a troll, or post that they have reported for trolling, or get themselves into on-going arguments with the OP/other posters ripping apart the details in an attempt to prove themselves right? Save the naive? I am not sure what the point is.

Asking for clarification is reasonable, though make sure it isnt yourself mis-reading or having missed the explainer. If you feel the clarification is more obfuscation and proof of troll, report, then continue to watch quietly, or leave. Continuing to challenge IS bullying and/or troll feeding, depending on if the OP was actually sincere, or a troll.

ElliotLovesGrub · 23/10/2014 17:05

Name changing being taken away would close off yet another forum for those of us with stalker exes etc. who have to name change often to remain anonymous.

MrsVamoOOOOOOOOOOs · 23/10/2014 17:05

Maryz, lovely.

Mine would be scarily low, I expect, except for tennis season and the 'c' word.

Then I think other mnetters would wonder if I ever do anything all day Summer and Winter. Grin

MrsVamoOOOOOOOOOOs · 23/10/2014 17:07

I don't think nn changing will go.

Post count while not perfect, far less upsetting.

Lweji · 23/10/2014 17:09

NN changing, but keeping the total number of posts, would allow privacy while showing when someone has been here for a long time.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 17:09

Generally speaking, we like anonymity on MN and we think it's a good thing and allows MNers to talk about (and get support/advice on) all sorts of things they'd be very reluctant to discuss otherwise.

And while we completely accept that lots of you are really concerned about what you perceive to be a problem with sockpuppeting and namechanging, in all honesty behind the scenes we don't see a lot of that. It's easy to just get a new registration and start up an entirely new account, and that's what determined trouble-makers tend to do in our experience.

We do have some tools to frustrate this process, but - like every single other site on the internet that allows people to sign up and post - there's no surefire way of stopping people doing it if they're really determined. and it seems some of them are

But please DO report people you suspect of NCing to cause trouble or to start nasty threads with impunity because we are happy to suspend people's NCing ability if we think they're doing that.

OP posts:
Maryz · 23/10/2014 17:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maryz · 23/10/2014 17:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EatDereksCorpse · 23/10/2014 17:18

Threads like that can harm genuine people. They can bring back memories or even tip people over the edge.

They shouldn't be allowed to run on. Links to RL help then locking or deleting is what should happen.

PacificDogwood · 23/10/2014 17:19

Coming late to this and have just worked my way through 11 pages

Rowan, thank you for organising this thread - I had to sit on my hands to not post on the multiple other ones.

Fwiw, I was under the impression that wombat was genuine and I hope that she is getting the help she needs and is getting better.

If, if, it turned out that she was not all she seemed to be, I am in the lucky position that it would not harm me in any way and other than mild annoyance and feeling stupid at being sucked in, I'd be fine.

I like the fact that MN is 'lightly moderated' and I do agree with the statement that 'MN is not compulsory'. Of course there are going to be trolls (what on earth motivates them I really don't get, but never mind) and nasty vampiric trolls. Just like there are going to be very vulnerable posters - the damage done to somebody who has experiences suicidal thoughts by a triggering OP is just as serious whether the author of the OP post as a genuine person in need or as a troll.

I think we are all well advised to remember to 'not give more than you can afford to' - in terms of time, nervous energy, advice and personal stories. I share some personal stuff because I am happy to share it in RL too (happy to talk about my MCs for instance) and other stuff I don't post about because it IS too private (or would breach my loved ones privacy and they have not 'allowed' me to post about them here).

I dunno.
I don't envy MNHQ their job.
I don't think that troll are taking over the asylum and for me the pros of MN still outweigh the cons.

I think it is fair enough to ask an OP to clarify something without being called troll hunter, but I agree with MNHQ that we all need to report and walk away from the thread if it gets too frustrating or upsetting.

stickymousemat · 23/10/2014 17:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

stickymousemat · 23/10/2014 17:22

and sorry if you have to delete any of that MN but it was bugging me!

JustScreamNobHurts · 23/10/2014 17:26

No sticky

Maryz was one of the posters being very careful NOT to call troll on Sangrias thread, and was then annoyed at the deletion message for that thread.

I'm sure Rowan can validate than many posters were trying NOT to refer by name to Wombat. Others didn't on both sides of the issue that was being raised.

This is the problem with Troll Hunter hunting, Chinese whispers and sending out the wrong impression of posters.

magimedi · 23/10/2014 17:27

Pacific - as ever you speak really good sense. (I'd vote for you if you were standing for anything!).

I'd be very interested to hear what you think should be done with suicide posts.

Momagain1 · 23/10/2014 17:27

MaryZ, i reported it. Even that night I saw save the saviour posts, which are good advice, but imply the OP can't be trusted/is a troll. Checked back in the next day to see lots of posts discussion about doubts, as you said, it had deteriorated. Perhaps the word troll was never actually used, but i got the implication that people now disbelieved the OP and were arguing about it amongst themselves. And then it was closed, and various TAATs openly discussed the number of people who had mistrusted it all along, it so was unbelievable, or how terrible were the numbers of posts challenging Wombats story.

There have been numbers of threads where i have scrolled past 'reported' posts and follow up comments arguing about the OPs details and phrasing. Again, the word troll might not actually be used, but, if the OP was sincere, that stuff is, at the very least, going toward bullying. And if the OP werent sincere, they are gleeful at having successfully trolled posters into arguing and giving them many hits and accomplishing Active thread status.

I agree with you about seeking out the posts that fall off the radar, I have begun regularly reading the Last 15 Minutes and Unanswered Messages listings. I am still somewhat new to this particular forum (keep looking for the upvote arrow) and being number response number 457 seems unnecessary.

EatDereksCorpse · 23/10/2014 17:29

More people are using Wombats name and their posts are staying! Mine had no reference to a certain thread yet got deleted!

So your post only stays if you mention you believed her?!

Thought it was meant to be a beau trap conversation Hmm

EatDereksCorpse · 23/10/2014 17:29

Neutral**

JustScreamNobHurts · 23/10/2014 17:30

Beau trap Grin

Is that how you get dates now Dezza?

Allhallowspeeve · 23/10/2014 17:31

Wow this thread is batshit crazy !

honestly ladies you really don't have to be here if you don't like it. No one is forcing you.
Madness!

stickymousemat · 23/10/2014 17:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EatDereksCorpse · 23/10/2014 17:33

NOB This fucking phone just guess even though I've typed a proper actual word!

JustScreamNobHurts · 23/10/2014 17:33

Allhallows?

What's your point?

MNHQ want feedback, this is a discussion thread for the site.

It's kinda how this place works.

ScaryZ · 23/10/2014 17:34

This reply has been deleted

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JustScreamNobHurts · 23/10/2014 17:34

Yes lots of posters were, but not Maryz.