MNHQ Racism policy

[ThePigOfHappiness]

Hi,
I was just wondering if you could let us know when the racism policy has been amended? I'm sure following today's discussions on NI that it needs to be looked at.
It's clearly breaking the equality act to discriminate based on nationality as it is racist, yet MNHQ don't acknowledge this?
Ta

Please just ignore Po and anyone else who posts similar tripe. If you must reply, try to keep within the guidelines. (As hard as it may be.)

We don't need another thread deleted, and we REALLY don't need a flipping bunfight.

Funny how calling someone a cunt gets you deleted instantly but a thread with a racist attitude is allowed to stand for hours. We collectively are clearly not as important as one sensitive soul.
Was the "flegs" comment deemed racist Rowan?

I've not read the thread in question but I now don't go onto the Scottish independence threads because they are so offensive and upsetting. (I'm Scottish with NI heritage)

To be fair to MNHQ, they did remove one thread about Glaswegians when the OP was making some highly offensive sweeping generalisations about mothers in the city but in general it seems to be okay to say some really shit things about people from the other UK countries.

Technically MNHQ are right, neither the Northern Irish, the Scots, the Welsh or the English constitute a race or a national group but if we are being abused purely because of that fact then saying the abuse is not offensive in the same way that racism is nonsense.

Although, that was my first deletion. Kind of glad I went out with a bang!

I agree with ThePig.

The racist tripe on that other thread was allowed to stand for hours and hours and hours and no matter what way we tried to explain it we got big grins and ah well we're sorry you feel that way.

Why on earth can't you see what is so so wrong about this?

Well, I suppose if you can say anything you like about Irish and NIrish people as it's not racist I guess that means we can all slag off English people to our hearts content without being deleted.

I am n. Irish. I really am not trying to be inflammatory or racist. I lived through the 70s and 80s am so sad at what is happening now. I just want it to go away

Its not going to go away if it is mocked, minimised and laughed at. Whether you agree or not, it does matter to people.

What matters to me is that a persons right to free speech and to protest is upheld. The flag that flies above city hall isn't a pressing issue in my life, but I can see the arguement from both sides.

So I was just deleted for calling someones ideas racist?

I thought that was okay?

Call the post, not the poster?

Apparently not...

Thankfully though the OP wrote Irish in the original thread which is a different nationality which should have allowed Mumsnet to delete for stupidity at the very least

It's also not going to go away by wishing it were so.

Can I join in on the English bashing? It sounds fun.

Some of my closest friends are English.

Really.

And people wonder why this site is seen as English/Londoncentric.

MNHQ are obviously doing one of their "Don't panic, Captain Mainwaring" things where they go mad deleting stuff left, right and centre whilst being unable to deal with the real issue. Hilarious.

Thankfully though the OP wrote Irish in the original thread which is a different nationality which should have allowed Mumsnet to delete for stupidity at the very least

They said they can't delete someone for being stupid.

And since so many of us corrected the OP about it being Northern Ireland, I think we gave up any protection MNHQ consider the Irish to have.

Can't have it both ways apparently. That's the whole problem.

I am sorry, I cannot understand you Rowan and HQ. Totally wrong decisions and reactions.

You don't have to be so nitty-gritty with the legal term 'racist'.

Please think of being racist, fascist, an extreme bigot or xenophobe as being on the same 'disgusting' level.

Can't be that difficult. But it seems to be the case. Strange

Neun - apparently not, according to the original thread. Even though nationality is protected under the Equality Act and even though they said they characterised Irish as a Nationality not a race. they only look at BAME people. Or have done in the past.

So bigotry is ok as long as MN approved nationalities / races are the targets?

A list would be helpful

Holey spot on.

It is ironic that sticking to the "rules" is paramount yet sticking to rules that are also laws is, well, not so important.

The legislation doesn't mention Black Asian and Minority Ethnic.

So why would you think those were the only groups the law applied to? When the law says something different?

Well said Holey.

I missed the thread being reopened isireland I was fuming earlier and gave mumsnet a wide berth for the afternoon but I assumed that it was only a formality for it to be deleted given the contents I read. I am very disappointed. I should also point out that the 'apology' above smacks of the I am sorry you felt that way apology we all use from time to time when we know we are in the right, just saying.

Absolutely, Holey.

Perhaps our mistake is expecting a bit of common decency from English people?

Mrs - this bit is factually wrong, both in terms of identity and by legislation:
Technically MNHQ are right, neither the Northern Irish, the Scots, the Welsh or the English constitute a race or a national group, the Eq Act and it's guidelines are crystal clear on that, and it's one of my jobs to work with it.

Using the OP or HQ's response aren't the best examples to establish a case of 'racism' (amongst other better examples), though anyone with half a brain and a bit of sense would see the OP (and some posters) as being inflammatory and ignorant. The world of equalities is fast evolving and open to new challenges as the population changes (eg ageism is now 'hot' as the demograph re age has changed) and attitudes commonly-held are much slower to catch up. But that doesn't mean we can't devine racist attitudes from people's words and behaviours, whether it 'qualifies' legally, and so HQ can deal with those with impunity.

I also avoid the Scots-goading posts/threads. You see 'jokes' as if they don't really matter and HQ have unfortunately been slow in the past on seeing them off. Treating GB/Irish discriminatory stuff has been quite different to dealing with skin colour racism as the former is often seen as comments and actions towards 'our own' regions, whereas against non-white people it's seen as far worse. Oddly.

So yes to this OP, the application of the 'racism policy' needs upshifting to be much more practically inclusive and defensive towards peoples' characteristics.

Some of my closest friends are English

Why Thankyou Tee, I knew not you cared about me so.

Those inferring it doesn't matter because its mumsnet and the Internet are being unfair. In real life it's easy to walk away from people being racist. And harder to walk away from being called on it.

On here, you can spout a load of crap and then fuck off and do something else, but if it isn't deleted, than it remains another little festering boil of racism that others can read and take heart in.

So any racism, disabilism or general bigotry should be nixed, till the authors realise they that we will not listen. Not ever.

HQ sometimes, I have noticed with few other threads on this level, to be soemhow anxious and over-worried to do the wrong thing...and usually ends up doing exactly that...the wrong decision.

Then you come across as patronising, paternalistic to massive numbers of posters who objetc...and you seem to be very resistant to criticism..it at least doesn't elicit more than loads of apologies, which come across like humiliating slaps in the face.

In my professional life, my experience is that the ones with the least competence are the ones who have the most anxiety making decisions and usually like to stick to the most painful version of following procedures, which make no sense in the first place.

Please MNHQ, re-consider and make statement which goes way beyond what Rowan has been responding.