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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
BunnyLebowski · 24/10/2013 21:59

ScreamingNaan Good job defining cronyism with your post.

Oh delicious irony.

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn · 24/10/2013 21:59

Its not like she found she was suspended / banned and then orchestrated a mass sit in with all of her 'cronies'. I think frankly there's surprise at the reaction on all sides here.

Justine - are you going to remove Bunny and Rollo's PAs against a poster who can't even come and defend herself?

RandallFloyd · 24/10/2013 22:00

X-post x1 million!

RosaParksIsBack · 24/10/2013 22:00

Is that ^ ok? That KingRoll just called AF bossy and domineering?? Nice. And yes I have hit 'report'

Scarymuff · 24/10/2013 22:01

I'm just confused over the CFD thread. As far as I could tell AF didn't make any attack. If what she said was considered an attack, then I have to report a heck of a lot more posters.

Was it really that thead? Because of all the posts I've seen from AF the ones on that thread were tame and, actually, supposed to be helpful. CFD was annoying/offending posters and AF suggested that she tone it down. So did I. So did garlic. But AF was the only one deleted. Why?

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn · 24/10/2013 22:01

This reply has been deleted

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Sparklingbrook · 24/10/2013 22:01

MNHQ were asked to explain themselves. Now they have done exactly that everyone is moaning and criticising. Confused

PortoFiendo · 24/10/2013 22:01

I think you are being very unfair to someone who only ever tried to do good. The site is full of boasters, goaders and trolls. Reporting doesn't work and troll hunting/online questioning is not allowed.

Lovely, genuine posters are subjected to complete twats posting shit on their threads. It has got worse recently. The feminists have been effectively driven off. You are punishing the wrong people.

givemeaboost · 24/10/2013 22:01

If all of you were doubting mnhq actions and acting like there was some sort of conspiracy, how do you propose they tell you the facts?? message several hundred people individually!?!Confused
posting it here for all to see in black and white is the only way to silence the doubters and clear up the facts. I strongly suspect mnhq would have messaged af to tell her this course of action.

She got warned 9 times and still carried on regardless as if the rules don't apply to her. Biscuit

PedlarsSpanner · 24/10/2013 22:01

Thankyou for the explanation Justine

Theworldisending · 24/10/2013 22:02

I see that's calmed everything down then...

NorthernLurker · 24/10/2013 22:02

No I'm sorry, I'm usually v comfortable with the way this site is moderated but I think you've left this one poster wide opened to continued attacks by this reponse. I've reported at least three posts today which have outright accused her of bullying - which is surely a personal attack? - not heard anything back as yet but I appreciate it's been a busy day - and now a detailed assessment of how many times she's been banned and how many times people have reported her. Why do we need to know you've 1100 references in your system to her? Presumably some of those are perhaps from her reporting attacks on her?
She won't be able to set foot on the boards now without being reported by exactly the contributors who have it in for her because she speaks plainly and from a feminist perspective.
This is not a good days work.

BunnyLebowski · 24/10/2013 22:02

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RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 22:02

@ExcuseTypos

I agree with whoever said those statistics will be used to goad AF for years to come.

I also think, if you are going to publish them for all to see, the full context should have been given. How many posts has AF posted altogether?
I assume it would be many, many thousands, in that context 185 deletions over x years, isn't as bad as it sounds.
And as you said Justine, you don't know how many of those deletions were for repeating someone else's rule breaking. So maybe they accounted for half of her deletions. Who knows?

The full facts or non at all should have been posted.

AF has posted 72,000 times - so yes, you're quite right that as a percentage, 185 reports is low.

But (as another piece of perspective), we have quite a few other posters who've posted a lot more, or around the same amount, but not been deleted anything like as much.

We're sorry not to be able to provide a full analysis tonight - our systems aren't really set up for this sort of thing and we thought it was more important to get some facts out there than to wait until we had a thorough stats analysis - although as Justine says, if there's a strong call for that we'll do it.

RhondaJean · 24/10/2013 22:03

I think perhaps we all also need to respect anyfucker here - she's an intelligent woman, she knew what would happen if she kept going the way she was, and she made an informed choice to do so knowing the consequences.

reelingintheyears · 24/10/2013 22:03

Screaming at you Grin

GuillotineLibertine73 · 24/10/2013 22:03

It did feel a bit intrusive reading ADs rap sheet Grin but does put it into perspective, have a feeling those stats could have tempered some of last night's hysteria.

PortoFiendo · 24/10/2013 22:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

southeastdweller · 24/10/2013 22:05

Thanks for the transparent and calm response. I'm 100% behind MNHQ on this.

DioneTheDiabolist · 24/10/2013 22:05

Cheers HQ. It's a bit pants that it has come to this, but I can't see that there was anything else you could do. You are all so lovely and sensible. Hope RebeccaMN is ok after the vitriol sent her way last night.

So, thanks for the info. As you were.Halloween Smile

Hulababy · 24/10/2013 22:05

How else could MNHQ justify their reasons without giving people such information? They didn't listen before when MN have been trying to explain but without the stats. It wasn't enough. So this is another way. Harsh I agree, but at least this way it is a bit more clear. But still people aren't happy...not sure MN can win either way tbh.

Maybe time to move on...

JaquelineHyde · 24/10/2013 22:05

Thanks Justine, hopefully the ridiculous hysteria can end now.

Can I just ask that if over the next couple of months AF continues to break the guidelines can you please not suspend her or ban her until after Christmas as I really don't think my family would appreciate losing another one to an MN drama.

Thanks Grin

LtAllHallowsEve · 24/10/2013 22:05

ScreamingNaan - proper LOL at that Grin

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker · 24/10/2013 22:06

Please please please ... No auto suspend. This would be so open to abuse by people who just want to cause trouble for individuals they don't like.

JaquelineHyde · 24/10/2013 22:06

Thanks Justine, hopefully the ridiculous hysteria can end now.

Can I just ask that if over the next couple of months AF continues to break the guidelines can you please not suspend her or ban her until after Christmas as I really don't think my family would appreciate losing another one to an MN drama.

Thanks Grin

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