Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
Moxiegirl · 24/10/2013 21:49

Thanks for clarifying. And from the uproar I thought she'd been banned forever Hmm

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:49

@Thants

Why do you outright ban other people with no warnings yet this person is given many warnings and only a temporary suspension for breaking the guidelines?

We usually only outright ban trolls, Thants. Most posters get a warning. Posters with a long history of being helpful get a few more warnings than most.

OP posts:
BOF · 24/10/2013 21:49

I'm sure we can take a collective deep breath and move on. I can say that now, because I'm sober...

Can I just apologise for any part I played in inflaming things by saying the ban was permanent? I didn't have the full facts at all, and was somewhat well-oiled.

I'm just looking forward to seeing her back.

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn · 24/10/2013 21:49

I suppose you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't envy you, that's for sure.

But then I read posts like BunnyLebowski and wonder what its all for. That was a shitty comment Bunny.

The people who don't like her will carry on making comments like that and probably reporting her for any minor infraction.

There's a real person behind all of this crapola.

givemeaboost · 24/10/2013 21:50

Good post, as I said last night, how long you have been on here (I myself have been here under various names almost since mn began!!) should bear no significance when being told off for breaking talk guidelines. AF should be well aware of the rules after all these yrs and stick to them as everyone else has to, no exceptions! good call mnhqSmile

MooncupGoddess · 24/10/2013 21:50

Tbh MNHQ are in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation here; giving the full background to the episode risks accusations of being unkind/breaching AF's privacy, but not giving details allows posters to accuse them of being unfair in suspending her.

FlabbyAdams · 24/10/2013 21:50

So after all the uproar last night AF was SUSPENDED and not banned?

Someone got their wires crossed by the sound of it and it spun a bit out of control.

People were baying for blood last night on some threads

Seems MHHQ are dammed if they do and Dammed if they dont.

From what I have read I think they have been fair, all they are doing on here is trying to put the record straight and explain things after the hysteria of last night.

BunnyLebowski · 24/10/2013 21:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:53

@reelingintheyears

Yes, explain your actions but at least have the courtesy to ask someone first before printing out their history. Just basic manners.

It's not really their history is it? It's as much our history isn't it - where they've broken the rules and we've been compelled to moderate them. But I agree I heartily wish none of this were necessary. But sadly, I think it was in this case.

OP posts:
RandallFloyd · 24/10/2013 21:53

It's a lose/lose Justine really isn't it. You're damned of you do and damned if you don't.

I think you're absolutely right that transparency was the only way after all the accusations flying around but on the other hand it's pretty much handed AF's arse out on a plate to her 'haterz'.

I think the webchat is a great idea. I'll miss it unfortunately (stupid work) but I'll look forward to catching up with it tomorrow

reelingintheyears · 24/10/2013 21:53

Exactly what Screaming said.

A real person who has done a lot of good.

MrsGeologist · 24/10/2013 21:54

I see Bunny has swooped in and already proved the point that this will be used against her.

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:54

@BOF

I'm sure we can take a collective deep breath and move on. I can say that now, because I'm sober...

Can I just apologise for any part I played in inflaming things by saying the ban was permanent? I didn't have the full facts at all, and was somewhat well-oiled.

I'm just looking forward to seeing her back.

Thanks for the explanation and apology, BOF. (Have to admit we were a bit baffled by your intervention!)

OP posts:
Sparklingbrook · 24/10/2013 21:55

I think the info had to be included in JustineMN's explanation of what happened. It should stop any further speculation or accusations.

Nine emails sent being told to stick to the guidelines. So she was expecting it anyway.

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn · 24/10/2013 21:55

Bunny - stop being so unpleasant.

Cronies? Are you actually listening to yourself?

reelingintheyears · 24/10/2013 21:56

Yes Justine, shared history if you like, but you could have messaged her first.

Would you want to return from a suspension after all this?

AF didn't stir any of this.

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:56

@JustineMumsnet

[quote trish5000] Seems a fair response to me. I too am aghast at the amount of reports concerning AF.

Is it possible that there will be more night cover? Is that on your agenda?

Yes it is, trish. Not quite sure exactly where we're at but Rowan will be...[/quote]

We have some extremely kind volunteers lined up to do overnight modding - they won't have anything like full privileges, but will be able to delete and ban outright spammers and trolls.

We're just waiting for a bit of tech work to be done before we set it all in motion - and of course we realise it will take some bedding in, so we hope you'll all help us out (as ever) by telling us how you think it's working

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff · 24/10/2013 21:57

Is this done with now? Couldn't believe how it kicked off tbh.

I have no opinion either way but I have never seen MN in that state before. It was surreal what was been said.

KingRollo · 24/10/2013 21:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RosaParksIsBack · 24/10/2013 21:57

Ouch - feel a bit dirty after reading that stuff. Should be private, I understand your reasoning MNHQ but still, ouch Sad

ExcuseTypos · 24/10/2013 21:57

I agree with whoever said those statistics will be used to goad AF for years to come.

I also think, if you are going to publish them for all to see, the full context should have been given. How many posts has AF posted altogether?
I assume it would be many, many thousands, in that context 185 deletions over x years, isn't as bad as it sounds.
And as you said Justine, you don't know how many of those deletions were for repeating someone else's rule breaking. So maybe they accounted for half of her deletions. Who knows?

The full facts or non at all should have been posted.

BIWI · 24/10/2013 21:58

Oh FFS stop with the bullying accusations yet again

Pan · 24/10/2013 21:58

I'd echo Anon tricky task that usually is done well, from the outside looking in - messy, fast-moving job. With the dexterity required for a wriggly nappy changer, iirc.
BOF - stuff happens unintendedly, and yes to looking fwd to the darling back.

BellaVita · 24/10/2013 21:58

Boffy, you minx.

Glad to see it is only a temporary ban.

Awks · 24/10/2013 21:58

Ouch.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.