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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
Sparklingbrook · 24/10/2013 22:15

How did everyone find out AF had been suspended in the first place? I am intrigued.

LtAllHallowsEve · 24/10/2013 22:15

Oh yes BOF, that was my immediate first thought (it's all about ME!)

AmberLeaf · 24/10/2013 22:15

Perhaps if AF or the OP announcing it had seen fit to say it was a weeks suspension, none of this hysteria would have happened

This.

JaquelineHyde · 24/10/2013 22:15

I would love to know how many times I have posted over the last 8 years BOF. Don't need to ask about deletions though as I am practically an angel and don't get deleted Grin

NorthernLurker · 24/10/2013 22:15

I've been deleted quite a few times. Never had an e-mail though. Tbh I know pretty much why in every case and I stand by what I will have said. It's up to HQ what they let stand on the threads but it's up to me to have opinions, to read and respond and argue my corner. If you've got 0 deletions I think you need to think a bit harder because debate and discussion will generate conflict as well as consensus if it's done right. Plenty of people will have posts deleted when they're defending others. I don't want 0% if that's what's at stake.

colleysmill · 24/10/2013 22:16

72,000 posts is some going!

Will we all get an end of year report this year?

No. of posts
No. of posts reported
No. of deletions
No. of emoticons thingys used
No. Days attendance

Overall grade for behaviour Grin

RosaParksIsBack · 24/10/2013 22:16

Can I just point out that the posters (inc me) saying it feels icky to read this 'personal' stuff, aren't necessarily the posters who accused MNHQ of any conspiracy. I certainly didn't, didn't even occur to me.

Therefore, you can't say, 'you demanded an explanation, now you have one you're moaning about that' because we're quite probably different people iyswim.

I think there were only 2 people who accused MNHQ of a conspiracy or lying and they're both on this thread.

RhondaJean · 24/10/2013 22:16

I did say on the "pa for AF" thread before it got deleted that I didn't think it was something she would have been keen on.

I would have been very upset if she had been permanently banned but there was a level of insanity being reached last night that can only be explained by last weekends full moon!

I was trying to say as well, one of the things which is GOOD. About MN is that it feels like ours but at the end of the day it isn't, and the "collective" (which if you read any thread you will see doesn't actually exist) will at times disagree with decisions from MNHQ.

Also I do think rules need to be applied fairly to all, whether I like the results or not.

SoupDragon · 24/10/2013 22:16

Is anybody else dying of curiosity to know their own post/deletion ratio now?

Over the 11 years I've been here, I would say my deletion % is vanishingly small.

Scarymuff · 24/10/2013 22:17

MNHQ those figures mean jack shit unless you are going to put them into context. How many deletions out of how many posts? Full disclosure or no disclosure please.

Also, are you going to post stats for everyone you ban/suspend. If not, why not?

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 22:17

@ScaryNutellaFangs

I think that had HQ said on their first response that it was a suspension and was for a week then it would not have blown up the way it did.

The sweary thread which got deleted was being used to blow off some steam and then that got deleted with a very prim and proper "this is not in the spirit of the site" message, when it was a huge venting joke.

When you get that message knowing full well that they have been allowed in the past as jokes and were understood to be so is perhaps what incensed some into starting the 15 + other threads about it.

Yes, in retrospect it wasn't a great move to delete that thread. We're sorry about that.

WallyBantersJunkBox · 24/10/2013 22:17

Hope not Colley as I have been matching off for 8 months this year....Smile

NorthernLurker · 24/10/2013 22:17

What like 0.26% Soupdragon?

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker · 24/10/2013 22:17

Speaking from experience it's really shitty when admins/moderators type out your history of wrong doing in public for everyone to discuss when you're not around to take part in the discussion.

Is it some kind of punishment?

ScaryNutellaFangs · 24/10/2013 22:17

BOF, I would also love to know and would deletions count of the whole thread was deleted?

WallyBantersJunkBox · 24/10/2013 22:17

Sorry that was meant to be bunking off not matching off...Confused

IamInvisisble · 24/10/2013 22:17

Well Justine it seems you're wrong whatever you do!

You don't explain, that's wrong. You do explain people are uncomfortable.

You don't ban people so you've got favourites, you ban a well know poster and that's not fair!

I just hope you've got a massive bottle of gin!

Yakky · 24/10/2013 22:18

Well it's not like she didn't have enough warnings.
There are rules in every walk of life and of some people can't manage to follow them, then they have to face the consequences.
And from what MNHQ have stated, it does sound like she pushed her luck on numerous occasions.

BOF · 24/10/2013 22:18

And do we get a trip to Mumsnet Towers in the summer term if we've signed in every day? And a go on the Red Button?

ExitPursuedByABogieMan · 24/10/2013 22:18

I have never been deleted.

mrsWast · 24/10/2013 22:18

i think some people need to step away from the internet and maybe go outside for a bit. i hear it's lovely at this time of year.

seriously though - talk about a storm in a teacup. damned if you do, damned if you don't. for all last nights screaming and frothing, including name changes, grand talk of strikes and all that jazz if HQ didn't immediately capitulate to what are, essentially, demands from a group of relative strangers on an internet message board used by the general public, now you have the information that undermines the excitement of a good old-fashioned conspiracy, people are STILL complaining.

blimey. that was quite the run-on sentence. to sum up: perspective. get some.

IamInvisisble · 24/10/2013 22:18

*not ban, suspend!

RosaParksIsBack · 24/10/2013 22:19

Would be great if posts that weren't illegal weren't deleted, but had a comment by MNHQ on them as then history couldn't be rewritten after the event as it often is and everyone would know who said what.

NoelHeadbandz · 24/10/2013 22:19

Can I just point out that the posters (inc me) saying it feels icky to read this 'personal' stuff, aren't necessarily the posters who accused MNHQ of any conspiracy. I certainly didn't, didn't even occur to me.

YY same here, I thought the posts last night by MNHQ were fair, and I posted to say as much

WorraLiberty · 24/10/2013 22:19

MN can't do right without doing wrong. People reacted strangely last night and wanted to know why AF had been banned. They find out why and still complain.

What more can MN do?!

I do not envy MNHQ at all

Exactly that ^^

MNHQ were repeatedly called liars last night by some posters and accused of covering their tracks etc..

They've posted the email they sent to AF and the stats and explanations regarding why she had to be suspended.

And still some people aren't happy?!

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