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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
Scarymuff · 25/10/2013 17:25

Actually FrightRider they have confirmed what I've been saying all along. And your post to me could be considered a personal attack, if they apply the same rules.

usualsuspect · 25/10/2013 17:30

It wouldn't stop me coming back if some posters were being twats.

It would stop me coming back if MNHQ Used my personal stats to
prove they were right.

But it's their site,they can do what they like.

FrothyDragon · 25/10/2013 17:33

Breaking quite a lengthy absence from MN to post this.

I agree with Leaven's post at 16:06.

For posting the stats of AF's supposed misdoings, MNHQ are ignoring the value AF has put into this place; Whether it's support, or calling out misogyny, or humour... AF has been a credit to this place.

You say you've had however many reports about AF's posts. So what? People disagree on here. Some people hit the report button in a passive aggressive response. And, shock horror, we attract the trolls. You think they're not hitting the report button too? May I remind you of the likes of the F4J invasion? Or BobBanana and Ed1337? You didn't publicly shame any of those the way you have done with AF.

Granted, it's your decision to ban AF, and your decision as to on what grounds. But is dragging her stats out for all to see really fair? To me, that's painting your target, and completely unfair.

I'll miss AF's presence.

FrightRider · 25/10/2013 17:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

valiumredhead · 25/10/2013 17:35

Leaven made very good points.

everlong · 25/10/2013 17:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LineRunner · 25/10/2013 17:36

0.0026%

StarlightMcKenzie · 25/10/2013 17:38

Perhaps they could also share an average number of reports for a regular unnamed poster for perspective!?

I dunno. Personally I think they are fools for trying to please everyone. They never will. Better to just let everyone get on with it and ignore the silliness.

usualsuspect · 25/10/2013 17:40

They could have stepped in sooner to say it was only a temporary ban.

The whole debacle would have died down in a day or two.

This thread has just wound up a lot of posters and done more harm than good imo

WorraLiberty · 25/10/2013 17:40

Exactly

And I don't think it helps that people are still using the word banned when she hasn't been.

She's been suspended which is totally different.

Shakey1500 · 25/10/2013 17:43

It's one thing to start a thread about a poster/pal being banned and another for the site to be bombarded though. And the scale to which it escalated to was surreal. I don't see what MN could have done but I agree that the stats were misplaced. Not done AF any favours. But then neither did the frenzy. Sigh

I do feel for all involved. MN included.

MadameDefarge · 25/10/2013 17:44

oh for heaven's sake, how much longer are we going to pillory MNHQ for getting it wrong once in a while, who have said mea culpa mea culpa, mea maxima culpa and number of times...

Shall we demand Justine et al throw themselves upon some metaphorical sword and reply everytime some here doesn't bother trtft?

Sparklingbrook · 25/10/2013 17:44

Me too Shakey. When is it all going to die down though?

usualsuspect · 25/10/2013 17:45

Mnhq could have stopped it escalating by coming onto the original thread and saying it was a suspension not a ban.

But hindsight is a wonderful thing and all that.

MadameDefarge · 25/10/2013 17:46

pretty soon sparkling, it has happened often and often. it is the nature of the beast.

everlong · 25/10/2013 17:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sparklingbrook · 25/10/2013 17:49

I have never seen anything like it, but only been here 2 years. If any newbies were thinking of joining over the last few days they probably thought better of it.

FrightRider · 25/10/2013 17:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pan · 25/10/2013 17:53

Posters can of course make a pact to not commence another thread once this one expires. Further antagonisms surrounding AF wouldn't be doing any justice or use for AF OR MN (both of which I admire and support), or the folk who inadvertently reported the 'facts; in error.

The arranged thread with Justine et al will be the place to raise site practices and principles. Otherwise we will have a few days of continuing unpleasantness and grievances being nursed without point.

Sparklingbrook · 25/10/2013 17:54

Can you explain the Moldies in a nutshell Fright?

FrightRider · 25/10/2013 17:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sparklingbrook · 25/10/2013 17:57

Cheers Fright. Smile

CarpeVinum · 25/10/2013 18:00

If any newbies were thinking of joining over the last few days they probably thought better of it.

If they had a personal history of finding a "home base" forum to settle in it would make them feel right at home. Grin

Becuase while it might feel shocking and excpetional, these sorts of "site politics and managment" kerfuffles are as rare as cats shitting in the freshly tilled soil you painstakingly prepped for your new vegetable garden.

usualsuspect · 25/10/2013 18:01

I'd expect nothing less than a whole topic dedicated to me if I got banned Grin

LineRunner · 25/10/2013 18:03

There was at least the 'usual bollocks' debacle, to be fair.

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