Smacking 'does no harm if a child feels loved': do you agree?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

We're wondering how you feel about new research that suggests smacking does children no harm as long as they know it is for the right reasons and feel loved.

The publication of this study - which focused on teenagers, it must be said - is causing quite a stir, with, according to the Telegraph, 'parenting groups and charities [reacting] angrily to the findings, [and] maintaining that a child can suffer long term damage from physical discipline'.

In Britain, parents are not banned from smacking their children but it is illegal to inflict injuries causing more than a temporary reddening of the skin.

So, do you agree that smacking is fine, as long as it's tempered with a backdrop of love and affection? Or do you think that smacking is never the answer? Please do tell.

sassy I agree that the negotiate/plead/shout spectrum isn't great parenting. But it isn't the only alternative to hitting children, there are other ways of using warnings and consequences than hitting.

I was smacked occasionally as a child as were my sister and brother. I am trying to recall and I think it must have been for pretty serious stuff as I don't remember it happening very often at all. It never affected my relationship with my mum - a lot of other stuff did though, we don't have a perfect relationship by any means - but I never felt unloved. I suspect because the primary way that I know whether someone loves me or not is not through touch but more through words. However my sister's experience of the same thing is completely different to mine and she would argue that it was abusive. I think it very much depends on personality how kids will respond.

That said, I still have no intention of smacking my kids for all the reasons stated by people in this thread.

For all the people saying that we can't compare to adults, how about making the closest possible comparison.
I argue Thai we shouldn't hit children because they are vulnerable (have less power than us adults) and are in our care.
How about if a vulnerable adult with a mental age of three or for was in my care, say my mother or sister. If she played up, would or be okay to smack her?

I argue THAT...bloody phone.

Such a difficult thing to debate. Why? Because, naturally, in this environment you can take a step back and analyse it rationally. And when you do that, any reasonable person can think of far more reasons why it's an appalling thing to do than reasons why it's right.

But surely - if any of us were to do it - it would happen at the last extremity of your patience. Speaking personally, my mother hit me (many times). I don't flinch from her, I don't have horrible memories of it, and I was, on many occasions, a ghastly little sh*t. In fact, I adore her, although I could probably tell her more often.

Intellectualising this is fine, but - just like those people who see a harassed mother with a screaming child in a supermarket and tut about their poor parenting - it's unlikely to be helpful or relevant. Each case is individual, there are doubtless people for whom one slap will be a psychological issue they'll remember for decades and others who regularly got a clip round the ear and had forgotten about it an hour or two later, in the same way that there will be parents that will agonise over and castigate themselves for a single unguarded clout and those for whom physical punishment is the norm.

give him a smack is a term used by criminals. Smacking is usually about the anger of the parent not about the child. You will never smack anyone who is as big as you are

The smackers tend not to show their hand in public because a complaint is only a phone call away

I am suprised mumsnet raised this (Busy smackers perhaps?)

In my opinion, smacking is never right and always harmful. Most parents smack in anger and I don't believe it teaches anything, except that adults can lose control and hurt you. I was smacked as a child and I'm sure my parents felt they were doing it in a loving way to "teach me a lesson". For me, however, it was always traumatic. Perhaps I was a particularly sensitive child. Perhaps not. In any event, my experience led me to never smack my children. They are both well behaved and confident now and I have never regretted my parenting choice which my partner completely supported. Ask yourself - would ever be acceptable to chastise an adult this way? Of course not, so why should any adult physically assault a defenseless child.

"I hate the ''it never did me any harm'' argument. It obviously did harm you if you now think it is acceptable to hurt a child."

That is a wonderful circular argument that adds nothing!

I agree blackcurrants i currently have my dd's phone, ipod and ninetendo, for 2 weeks, as a form of discipline.

Intellectually i can't really justify smacking. And i'm not for it when parenting. But when i see some little shit child either on tv or whacking everyone at nursery, my default position is, 'he needs a bloody good smack' half joking.

I think the point i'm trying to make however, is that it's not so much that smacking was a good parenting tool, it's that a lot of the alternative chosen is useless.

I don't think it's a massive co-incidence or takes a genius to find a correlation between the decline of smacking, and the rise of anti social behaviour and downright disgusting behaviour in schools.

or to put it another way, with the hatred of smacking a new ideology of child centred, un-disciplinarian way of thinking as materialised.

Sorry if it doesn't make sense!

Oh it makes a sort of sense. Hitting has gone down hill as acceptable over hundreds of years

that child 'whacking' everyone at nursery (hitting? shocking!) may well be a child who is smacked at home.
I would also be willing to put money on most of the really badly behaved children at school, and most criminal not coming from non-smacking homes. I would guess that actually the problem is ineffectual parenting rather than a lack of corporal punishment.

it would be interesting to here Victoria Derbyshires opinions on smacking little children Shes hot on punishment

Sorry to disappoint you wot but his mum is of the talk, discuss, rationalise brigade. She looks absolutely worn out as well.

why would I be dissappointed? In that case maybe she needs some support.

It's very easy to be smug and sanctimonious if you have managed to raise your children into wonderful young people just with a firm word and explanations, choices and consequences, thinking step, etc.

For DS2 and DD this is the case for me- I've genuinely never needed to do anything more as they respond to the above and are generally line- towing.

However DS1 is FAR more challenging and has difficultly 'seeing it coming' in terms of repeated warnings, adults' patience waring, upsetting others around him. I'm not proud of it and if I were a better parent I maybe could have handled it better, but there have been occasions where after many warning and 'last chances' he has had a smacked bottom. Almost always this has resulted in a short, sharp shock to him and a complete turn around in attitude and behaviour, which has made me think- why didn't i just do this 10 minutes ago and avoid all that futile negotioation.

It is something I battle with and would rather not do but both DH and I conclude that for DS1 it is the only effective solution to unacceptable behaviour.

For everyone out there who has never smacked and their children are polite and well behaved-fantastic good for you. But not all children are so receptive to the same forms of discipline.

yes ppeatfruit of course i am scarred and you are the best person to judge that as you know me and my life history so well.......

i could explain exactly why at 34 years of age and being well balanced i don't need to be told from someone unqualified with no prior knowledge of me why your comment is so ludicrous.

um hang on a minute..... actually your so way out i think I will do as a previous poster did and disengage from even getting into it with you.

im off to ask a 3 year old what family car we should get next........

I meant it would disappoint, in the sense that it doesn't back up your asumption. That's all.

Maybe she does, she just had her 3rd child. And although i have all the sympathy in the world, I have 4 dc's, 3 are under 3 and 1 is about to hit 13, so unfortunately i can't give it to her.

And when her son deliberately races his tikes car into my 1 yr old and there's blood everywhere- my sympathies evaporate.

All kids do this to some extent, but when he's already bashed about 4 otherss beforehand, he gets the label of being a problem to the welfare of the rest of the children.

Just because I don't hit my kids doesn't mean I negotiate every little thing with them. For example, I would never spend 10 minutes negotiating and discussing putting shoes on with my 3 year old. She would be told to put her shoes on. End of conversation.

I am not the type of parent who negotiates and discusses really. I expect my rules to be followed and I expect good behaviour. I do not hit or smack them, though.

Unfortunately some children instinctively challenge what they are asked to do. It is not always as simple as 'I just ask them to do something and they do it.'
MrsBungle if all yours do then well done, but some of us are not so lucky!

I'm aware that there is a lot inbetween a smacking and negotiating spectrum mrsbungle sorry if that point isn't clear.

I just mean that as smacking as declined the negotiaing/explaining ad nauseam parenting style has imo become too overly used.

Not by everyone........obviously.

I was just responding to the posters who appear to think that if you don't smack you are the type of parent who gets in to long winded negotiations with your kids about every little thing.

My kids certainly don't do everything I tell them first time - of course they challenge what they are asked to to - they are not robots. What I mean is I manage to be firm without feeling the need to give them a slap.

Agreed mrsbungle

I was smacked as a child - and given the 'face in face' treatment with the scowl, curled lip and the jabbed finger. It scared the living daylights out of me. I would cry and feel unloved after it happened. My mother would take a long time to come back down from her 'high' of violent outbursts for the menial of things I did.
I grew up knowing that the punishment in my house was a smack on the legs. I also grew up with a mother who had increasingly aggressive behaviour and would give the silent treatment for weeks on end, making me, my brother and my father uncomfortable. Still, 30+ years later, she can STILL rule with an iron rod, flitting between being happy and cheery and then angry and cold the next.
My brother has disowned her for a disagreement that I still know very little about and since then nearly 5 years ago, he has shut me out of his life too, I think because I still have a relationship with my mother which today is very strong.
Despite my mother's mood swings, she looks after my toddler 2 days per week. She travels the 120+ miles every week to spend quality time with him. She never smacks him despite me not talking to her beforehand about mine and DH's wishes to discipline him. She still believes in smacking but I think experience and knowing about different discipline tactics has meant she doesn't NEED to resort to it.
I'm not sure about the research behind the study. I was smacked, like I said, as a child and I'm not sure how you can KNOW whether smacking does a child harm or not.
I was a believer in smacking but since having my toddler, it breaks my heart to see him hurt when he falls or bumps into things so how can I inflict harm on him by smacking him when he's done wrong?????