Madmouse's open letter to MNHQ about the treatment of those with disabilities on MN

[madmouse]

Dear MNHQ

I joined MN when I was pregnant with my lovely ds. That heady autumn with bump before such words as NICU, neonatal seizures, brain damage, cerebral palsy, speech delay, special school entered my vocabulary.

That was 5 whole years ago - and all that time MN has been a part of my life. Got a lot of support from my ante- and postnatal buddies and from experienced SN mums. Gave back where I could. Became ill with PTSD, found the MH threads, recovered, started to give support on the MH threads.

Now I've come to the point that the only thing stopping me from leaving MN is that I would let down people on the MH threads. Other than that your (MNHQ) behaviour today has been an eye opener and a bit of a final straw.

MN has become, like RL, a place where disabled people and people with disabled children are not safe, not treated equally and not extended the same courtesy and respect as those without disabilities.

What happened today is just a tip of the ice berg. Day in day out threads appear with the same old theme. AIBU to use this disabled space because my baby's maxi cosy is too big and the P&T spaces are full, AIBU to use the wheelchair space on the bus (those two appear weekly by and large), AIBU to think it's nice to be disabled because you get lots of benefits, AIBU to think disabled people have it easy, AIBU to think I should have a free car too seeing as that I pay taxes.

It goes on and on and on. And none of it is ever challenged other than by a small group of us who do all this fighting in RL too - because it affects us and our children.

There is such thing as discrimination. And you do have a duty to stamp it out. Hand off moderation is no excuse certainly seeing how quick you were to delete 2shoes thread when some of us started fighting back against the endless threads of threads which in turn are copies of last week's threads.

I am very disappointed. And I think you have some thinking to do.

Best wishes

I had a look at that thread and also just took it as a lighthearted Fridayish silly thread, rather than goading, IMHO.

The strength of feeling has been very eloquently put, and it's clear that MNHQ do take this on board. Let's see how future moderating looks...

I agree with madmouses last post.

Very eloquently put.

I shall leave it at that.

I'm not really sure how to take it. Perhaps it is best to assume the best. However, three different members of MN staff have posted on it this morning, which if nothing else demonstrates that the staff shortage seems to be over. Surprising too that that's the case on a Friday, which IME is not usually that day when staff come flooding back into work.

Too busy posting on that thread to post in this one eighties evidently.

I agree with madmouse's last post.

I think that thread is takinge the piss out of 2shoes wanTing an explanation about why her thread was deleted when others weren't and I think it is a low thing to do.

The fact that members of MNHQ are posting on it, when they took a flipping age to do anything about the other threads speaks volumes IMVHO.

Yep

landofsoapandglory I am with you there, seems an rather nasty thing ot do,.
but hey kind of proves a point really.

I have often wondered if certain posters were from mnhq, as there were similarity in their posting styles.

I always imagine they would post posh:o

What as in... David, fashion, pouting?

Madmouse - good post, good thread and I really hope you haven't left.

I know it's going to sound shit but I am one of the posters who truly has been educated by the posters who either have disabilities/SN or who have children with disabilities/SN. I am hugely grateful to them for the time they have spent over the 4 years I have been on this site, explaining to the ignorant why things are offensive/wrong/illegal and I can understand that it must be bloody frustrating to still have to do that for all the newbies who come along and display the same old, same old ignorance. I try to do the educating now - to the occasional extent that occasionally people have thought I have a personal reason to do so - I don't, but I do because I believe it is in ALL our interests now to educate the ignorant, it shouldn't be left up to the people who have to deal with the ignorance on a daily basis in real life.

If more people who didn't have to deal with it daily in real life stood up and educated the ignorant, then it would save some time, spread the word faster - and it would help if MNHQ were more consistent with their messages. Perhaps it would be useful to have a set of "Disablist Talk Guidelines", with some legal points on, that could be linked to as soon as one of these disablist threads starts again.

I do think it's a shame MNHQ deleted 2shoes' thread. Other "threads about threads" are allowed to stand sometimes - and perhaps if it was considered inflammatory, you could have just adapted the wording in the OP, rather than deleting the entire thread? I know you can do this, MNHQ - you should maybe consider that as an option instead of blanket deletion.

MadMouse started a leaving thread, its sad she feels she needs a break.

Am taking a break too.

Its a shame its come to this, but I know where madmouse is coming from and I agree with her.

that is a shame, so sad the Madmouse needs to do this

Ok love, well you two take care, and come back when you are ready.

I really wasn't meaning to make any connection to this thread by posting on the other one. Apologies if you feel we were having a go - that certainly wasn't the intention - merely a bit of general lighthearted leg-pulling of ourselves I thought.

I know 2shoes that you and others feel that we at MNHQ don't delete enough - we've had this debate every couple of years or so and I'm not sure we are ever going to agree. But over that time we have evolved our policy in consultation with users. Put simply we don't tolerate disablist posting and we state it clearly in our rules.

That said there is a tension between freedom of speech and protecting people's feelings and it's not just on the SN boards, there's a similar feeling at times on the feminism and the relationships boards. We are, as we say in our T&Cs, within reason, trying to let the conversation flow but when you've been on these boards a long time it can be tiring seeing the same old arguments being rehashed. I'm not sure there's an easy answer to that tension tbh but I do think us doing a page of disability myths is a great idea - it might be easier for people to link to that than engage in yet another conversation. I hope so.

It is possible, of course, that Mumsnet will never be completely as you want it to be. It's quite hard for us to operate things in a way that suits everyone but we do try to listen to folks' concerns and adapt where we can, whilst staying true to the core tenets of allowing parents to pool thoughts, ideas, info, advice to make eachothers' lives easier.

Maryz,how do you know that?
And are you 1?

Maryz,that would explain your postings on here

@Thumbwitch

Madmouse - good post, good thread and I really hope you haven't left.

I know it's going to sound shit but I am one of the posters who truly has been educated by the posters who either have disabilities/SN or who have children with disabilities/SN. I am hugely grateful to them for the time they have spent over the 4 years I have been on this site, explaining to the ignorant why things are offensive/wrong/illegal and I can understand that it must be bloody frustrating to still have to do that for all the newbies who come along and display the same old, same old ignorance. I try to do the educating now - to the occasional extent that occasionally people have thought I have a personal reason to do so - I don't, but I do because I believe it is in ALL our interests now to educate the ignorant, it shouldn't be left up to the people who have to deal with the ignorance on a daily basis in real life.

If more people who didn't have to deal with it daily in real life stood up and educated the ignorant, then it would save some time, spread the word faster - and it would help if MNHQ were more consistent with their messages. Perhaps it would be useful to have a set of "Disablist Talk Guidelines", with some legal points on, that could be linked to as soon as one of these disablist threads starts again.

I do think it's a shame MNHQ deleted 2shoes' thread. Other "threads about threads" are allowed to stand sometimes - and perhaps if it was considered inflammatory, you could have just adapted the wording in the OP, rather than deleting the entire thread? I know you can do this, MNHQ - you should maybe consider that as an option instead of blanket deletion.

Yep that's a fair point - we'll have a chat about that internally and see if there was an alternative way of dealing with it.

I think it is so sad sad madmouse has left, and others as well.
It is a shame that the in crowd think this is all so funny they start a thread taking the piss out of my thread!! nice of mn hq to join in as well.

Can you answer a question please,Justine
In your heart of hearts,you do not want to delete anything do you?
You want to be "innocent facilitators" as I mentioned sometime yesterday.

Maryz I have reported my thread and asked for it to be deleted, I posted from the heart and now well feel a bit like the butt of a joke.