Deletions etc

[JustineMumsnet]

So we've had a get together at MNHQ and we have come up with the following set of actions/proposals, following on from the previous thread:

1. We will make more effort to be communicative and transparent. This will include the MNHQ duty person posting on the boards more to explain a deletion of a post or a thread and providing more info in cases where we have banned or suspended someone for trolling, so folks know that we are "doing something". We will also try to provide more specific message deleted info - ie more than just because it "breaks talks guidelines" (eg because it perpetuates rape myths etc) (NB this will take a bit of time because it involves tech)

1. We will aim to be quicker to delete threads that have been or seem to have been started purely to inflame/goad, even if it means we occasionally might make a mistake. This is to avoid the goady threads where an OP is deliberately inflaming, leading to a lot of deleted responses. We will also suspend those who we suspect of being out to deliberately goad and make sure our guidelines reflect this.

1. We will aim for a lighter touch approach to deletions where discussion is robust but lively and interesting and "attacks" are borderline/very slight/ 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

1. We will make sure everyone at MNHQ is aware of looking at the bigger picture - not just focus on the reported post - and is clear on what constitutes a personal attack - ie that it's ok to attack an opinion, not ok to attack a poster.

1. Our policy on trollhunting remains not to tolerate it - so please don't do it, but please do report suspicions to us. That said, we will try to be more communicative on threads where folks suspect a troll - ie we are aware that some people have expressed doubts and we are looking into it/ we have checked this out and have no reason to believe this person is a troll/ we agree this person is not what they seem and have deleted the thread.

1. We will hold regular chats/q&as about moderation issues and policy - monthlyish? - where we can have a good debate about any particular bugbear or issue and one of us will discuss policy and why we do what we do...

Out of interest we've checked the deletions thing and surprisingly the number of deleted messages seems to have dropped not risen year on year - even though traffic is up by more than 40%
(these include messages deleted from deleted threads - so one long thread = 1000 deletions)

Jan 1st 2011 to May 29th 2011: 81884 messages
Jan 1st 2012 to May 29th 2012: 72037 messages

Nonetheless we think people have raised some good points and we hope all trying the above will make the board better - if not we'll try something else - thanks for all the input.

Please do post your thoughts/observations (disclaimer - I'm off out shortly so won't be around to respond tonight but will be back tomorrow)

Well look what happens when I turn off my computer! Thanks Justine, really like the look of your proposals. It would be great if you could add the lock thread idea as well, I think that would help.

Love "How to Talk so Mumsnetters Will Listen"

Thanks Justine.

I think that an option to lock a thread immediately if there are lots of reports would be very helpful - if it was done with a warning it would mean that if people suspected a troll perhaps they would simply report and the significant reporting would alert MNHQ to do something immediately whilst they looked into it without the thread going silly in the meantime.

i just want to be involved.

Also you could just put a flashing red BUNFIGHT klaxon alert on the temporarily locked thread.

can i just say that i came here from the old raising kids site that was sold to the yanks who then shut it down.....i had numerous rows about modding.

i loved it here because it appeared to be completely unmodded and we were treated as adults.

the recent spate of deletions felt very much like this place had become a fully moderated site.

and i dont want that,. if it becomes just like every other parenting forum out there i will go. i know that means sod all, but i like being treated like an adult, i like that i can swear, or have a laugh, or be honest with a poster, without it being deleted - up until now.

i dont want this site to be hugely moderated and fall into the same trap as every other fluffy parenting forum.

would the locking idea get misused.....???

all the other forums i used lock threads....i find it frustrating tbh.

Agree that locking a thread whilst MN Towers investigates whether OP is or is not a troll is a fantastic idea. There were some really nasty threads in Childbirth a while back, all by the same troll, where the troll got people to post some extremely personal and distressingly personal accounts (eg MC, stillbirth). It was left live whilst MN Towers investigated, and many of us felt duty bound to warn posters that this was most likely a troll to stop them from posting such personal and painful details. Temporarily locking a thread would be a great solution.

Apologises for overuse of word 'personal' - trying to make a chocolate cake, send my Dad home, sort out DCs conjunctivitis and read thread all at once....

You're so reasonable and wise Justine - ever thought of running for Parliament (serious question).

And of course it would be looked at by MN BEFORE being locked down - just to confirm that they want to check out whether it is a troll

Fab ideas from HQ. Also love the lock down thread idea and the reason for deletion idea.

I agree with Maryz that it would have to be a high number of reports to get a thread locked.

There have been some very weird happenings on here lately.

thank the lord that Saint Justine of MN has calmed the troubled waters. Seriously, I did wonder for a moment there how all the recent 'goings ons' were going to be sorted. A master class in diplomacy for us all. If you can reign in MN you can basically deal with owt. I would say 'Justine for Leader of the House'

oh and miles better than that Sandy chick with her PA smileys. Sorry Sandy love, know you're only doing your job and all that

depends there was another poster who was banned with the repeated/once issue a while back and it was a repeat offence just not on the particular thread in question iyswim.

"This thread has been reported by a large number of posters, so we are suspending posting on it temporarily while we sort it out" - as this would require a small investigation, before locking and would enable the situation to be seen (advice etc) might be an idea. however, i can still see an arguement that it would stop people with exceptional circumstances being made to feel doubted.

The statement from Justine was fair. Do think they need to look further back then last year as last year was particularly bad for invasions and trolls and was what drove me off posting in mainstream mn sticking to only a fw threads.

Tbh even at the moment i can't see that changing. the atmosphere has changed significantly and if it wasn't for the threads I am on and the lovely ladies on them, i suspect i would no longer be on mn. And I know a large no of poster who have left and been away over a year now who used to be very regular users of mn. Here's hoping the implemented changes help to settle things down.

Yes, ArtexMonkey. She is lovely and very unfairly banned. I will send Belgian chocs to MNHQ if you can rectify this situation. The posh ones, I mean, not those guylian seashells crap....

Thanks, Justine

Think the lockdown idea is a great solution - temporary lockdown pending investigation, based on number of reportees and dubious posts taken in context, with permanent lockdown with truthful, non-generic reasoning where the entire thread is looking likely to be deleted.

It's often the period in which spidey senses tingle (and before action is taken) which causes the most friction - and if posters are only hanging around on those threads rubber-necking and fanning the flames, lockdown would prevent threads getting out of control and descending into anarchy.

It's going to be a fine bloody line getting to grips with the whole 'attack the post, not the poster' thing. I firmly believe that as adults on a post-moderated site, we absolutely should be challenging people who make disparaging, cruel and any other 'ist' remarks and, to use some of that delightful corporate speak, calling them on it. I don't quite see how we will have the freedom to do that. But no doubt we'll do our best to toe that line. Mostly. Honest.

I bloody love MN and it don't want to see it go tits up.

Is Sandy a girl then? I always assumed male from the name...

It's taken me forever to catch up on all this.
I'm kind of new although I've lurked here forever and was worrying that this wasn't the place I once thought it was. I'm not particularly brave when it comes to commenting or joining threads but lately have been even more reluctant because it's become a slightly confusing place to be. When the thread trying to pass on goodbyes to a couple of regulars was hijacked and ruined deleted I thought it was maybe time to find a new forum, a thought that fills me with dread because I've lurked here for a bloody long time before being confident enough to start posting
I hope that MN is the place I initially thought it was because I was really beginning to feel at home here.

I'm guessing Sandy is an INTJ?

Thanks Justine!

I also think locking threads temporarily while they're "sorted out" would be a top plan, but also agree that they need to be looked at first, even if it is happening in the middle of Saturday night, or there is definitely the risk of invaders causing problems.

Great set of proposals - I think that this "This thread has been reported by a large number of posters, so we are suspending posting on it temporarily while we sort it out" is a great idea too.

Justine

Not very fair to name names, is it?