Troll-hunting and subsequent Thread-ruining

[oneofsuesylvesterscheerios]

Yes, in some ways this is a thread about a thread, although its actually an interesting general point too. Plus, I don't want to carry on the discussion on the actual thread as it would be too damaging and would take it off in a completely different direction.

So... If a poster broke the rules and shouted troll, and then they were chastised (rightly) and the post removed, unless the offending surrounding comments reacting to the troll-hunt are removed too, the damage has been done surely?

We assume when someone posts regarding a personal trauma that they are telling the truth (well I hope we do) and if we suspect anything, we surely just ignore these days: we know the MN guidelines, etc.

And we know that certain situations in life happen to a lot of people (bereavement, loss, break-ups, etc). So when someone goes through a horrible time, the beauty of MN is that we don't just get sympathy and unmumsnetty hugs; we get empathy from folk who have been there themselves. We also often get bloody good advice, practical and emotional.

A thread that contains an accusation of troll-hunting is blindingly obvious even when the offending poster's comments have been removed. And thus, the damage is done.

When my dad died last I had some fantastic support from mnetters who'd suffered the loss of a parent and knew how 'rootless' it can make you. I'd have been confused and beyond upset if anyone had questioned my grief online. It doesn't matter how many positive posters there are on thread; just one snarky comment and the wave of a pitchfork is enough to send the OP packing, at a time when they might need the 'anonymous' support of MN most.

So, what I'm asking MN Towers is: if troll-hunting is banned, and it's fully acknowledged how damaging this could be on a thread that offers support to lots of people, often not just the OP, shouldn't all references and posts regarding an accusation be completely removed so the thread can remain intact and totally focused on the thread subject? Otherwise, it seems pointless.

Hello all
Thanks again for all your thoughts on this.

Please please please please please do continue to report anything that makes you go
M Towers
[bugrin]

Olivia, shouldn't you be promoting MN Local by answering the question, "What is a Tsarina"?

I find the troll hunters rather irritating and self-righteous. Personally I think if someone is posting what could be a RL situation, then that thread could help someone even if the OP is not genuine. If other people want to open up and share there experiences, they should be aware that they are posting in a public forum and anyone could be reading that.

It's not like a personal discussion with a friend in private, where you could feel betrayed if it turned out they lied to you about your own experience. You are putting yourself in a public arena.

I do report trolls and troll hunting. I don't make sneery incredulous comments on threads. How would that make someone feel if they read that thread and it did correlate with their experience? Like no-one believed them I expect.

I don't think people should sit on their hands if RL help is being offered or to be given imminently.

no of course not. I think people should say something in those cases.

HOWever very nearly all the time, it is not about RL and no action is being taken on behalf of or pertaining to the thread. in those instances, which are by far the greatest proportion, I don't think anyone should say anything on the thread.

You can pM people if you are really concerned. You can report it to MNHQ. You should not say anything on the thread unless someone says they are taking RL action related to it.

I really believe this is the best balance. It's happened to me and to other innocent parties way too many times and it's so so damaging to everyone to be calling troll when it's not.

Problem is though Beer that no one knows if it's trolling or not. often it's simply a case of a few people thinking and others not thinking that at all, and the OP being completely innocent of these reactions, let alone wanting to cause them.

And what happens then? The OP feels like absolute shit and hideously unwelcome and still no one knows one way or the other, because MNHQ will not come on to a thread to back anyone up. I know, I've asked them to before. Mud sticks.

And the ones who were going congratulate themselves on being 'probably right' and the OP wanders off in a right state, not to return at least for a few months.

I don't think it's necessarily the prime motive, the protection of others thing...I think a lot of that can be achieved in MOST cases by reporting and staying out of it. MNHQ eventually get onto it. (unless like I said, RL is coming into it - then by all means).

I think a lot of the time it's about being right, about proving to everyone that YOU aren't being taken in, you're not stupid, Oh no, perish the thought...like putting your hand up in class, you need everyone to know you realised it first.

Saying that honestly as it's been among my motivations in the past. I sit on my hands now under those circumstances.

The RL/web crossover is the biggest basis for concern over trolling and if that were somehow better managed, in various ways, we might be going somewhere.

I have no idea who the Tsarina is for my county and certainly our local boards are a bit tumbleweedy - she could post once a month for all I know . Giving that kind of responsibility to people who basically signed up for organising local ads is a little odd - and it would just make them moderators. Which MN doesn't have, thank the baby cheeses.

But that's exactly what I mean, BeerTricks. People do need to learn that posting on forums is a different situation than having RL conversations, and moderate their own behaviour accordingly.

Case in point being that baby thread yesters. Did I notice it was off? Yes - like many of us it seems. Did I say anything on the thread? No, it would have been pointless and if I'd been wrong, damaging to everyone - the site, the OP and so on. Did I report it? Yes, cautiously.

Did I feel like shouting out to everyone? Yes of course. But it would have been wrong wouldn't it. So you don't, and you put up with the feeling that maybe someone reading it thought, Flight's an idiot to believe this shit (as I'd already posted on it before I thought ). But that's no biggie really is it when you consider what's at stake.

And they dealt with it anyway in a few hours.

Good point Beertricks, about wanting to give a finger to the actual troll.

It's just knowing whether it is a troll or not. I mean it can be so ridiculous....I've been in a situation where I've been reading posts about me that are peppered with s and I've been sitting there thinking, Hellooooo, it's me! It's your buddy! You LIKE me! but because you've namechanged you can't do anything about it. Once I even gave my original name half way through a thread just to get people to shut up. Even then I think half of them thought 'Oh well obviously flight's been making stuff up before, including this, and we just never realised'

It's only really awful if you actually get a sense that the're a groundswell against you from other quarters and folk are PMing etc. The rest of the time you can generally repsond appropriately enough for people - at least some of them - to take you seriously and answer your actual question.

God I sound like I'm a pro. I'm not. I just post unwisely quite a lot about stuff I ought not to share. There's two sides to being AS completely honest.

Wel I think it's just a sense I've built up over the five years I've been on here, that certain things meet with a less than helpful response, sometimes.

Like you say, you wouldn't post certain things. Well, I would have before but not now. It took me longer to learn that I suppose, than most people, maybe my social inabilities or maybe I'm just thick [busmile] but anyway it seems more obvious now what's off limits.

Sad to read all the threads by people who don't yet understand this, and get pulled to pieces, and it makes things worse for them, not better.

First of all wowsers that Beer got taken in. There must have been fields round here....

Secondly, troll hunters have in the past PM'd me telling me to stop being a nobber and get more savvy and I've been hugely grateful for that as it's stopped me being taken in any more . So stop blaming the troll hunters you plank.

Thirdly, my instinct is theres a big fat troll wandering the boards at the moment and I'm on my guard. As are a few others. So I'll be the one PM'ing caution when she launches into a drama, as I expect to happen. Grrr and :(

The key like some smart MNers have said up thread is to be savvy, to protect yourself and try to offer a heads-up when needed to posters you trust or have rapport with. And report to HQ, obvs.

But to blame troll hunting is just so stupid. So fucking stupid.

The thing is, lovely everlong, I canna say anything as it'll be perceived as troll hunting. Which I guess it is. And HQ get all scary and finger-pointing-y And I could be wrong, but my chinnychinchin keeps on itching when I see them all over the fecking place.

s'me, everlong. Pinot HATES me. Follows me around being all Chinny Reckon.

Damn you know!