Troll-hunting and subsequent Thread-ruining

[oneofsuesylvesterscheerios]

Yes, in some ways this is a thread about a thread, although its actually an interesting general point too. Plus, I don't want to carry on the discussion on the actual thread as it would be too damaging and would take it off in a completely different direction.

So... If a poster broke the rules and shouted troll, and then they were chastised (rightly) and the post removed, unless the offending surrounding comments reacting to the troll-hunt are removed too, the damage has been done surely?

We assume when someone posts regarding a personal trauma that they are telling the truth (well I hope we do) and if we suspect anything, we surely just ignore these days: we know the MN guidelines, etc.

And we know that certain situations in life happen to a lot of people (bereavement, loss, break-ups, etc). So when someone goes through a horrible time, the beauty of MN is that we don't just get sympathy and unmumsnetty hugs; we get empathy from folk who have been there themselves. We also often get bloody good advice, practical and emotional.

A thread that contains an accusation of troll-hunting is blindingly obvious even when the offending poster's comments have been removed. And thus, the damage is done.

When my dad died last I had some fantastic support from mnetters who'd suffered the loss of a parent and knew how 'rootless' it can make you. I'd have been confused and beyond upset if anyone had questioned my grief online. It doesn't matter how many positive posters there are on thread; just one snarky comment and the wave of a pitchfork is enough to send the OP packing, at a time when they might need the 'anonymous' support of MN most.

So, what I'm asking MN Towers is: if troll-hunting is banned, and it's fully acknowledged how damaging this could be on a thread that offers support to lots of people, often not just the OP, shouldn't all references and posts regarding an accusation be completely removed so the thread can remain intact and totally focused on the thread subject? Otherwise, it seems pointless.

I honestly think that the people that call troll on threads are in the main, 100% right.
I pretty much spot them immediately, but don't post.
I hate seeing lovely, kind people get taken in

I agree that to know the percentage of threads where "troll" is called and the OP turns out to be genuine would be very useful. I think it would help to know that. Either it is a useful service to MNHQ or it isn't.

A serious question - to the posters who do call troll on threads, why don't you just hit the report button? Why do you have to raise it on the thread?

I am not sure whether or not I have reported someone I suspected of being a troll in the past so I am not sure what MNHQ actually does when a thread is reported for suspected trolldom. But perhaps, if it is not enough to satisfy the so-called troll hunters, some work needs to be done on what MNHQ can do to address suspected trolls.

I think the Tsarinas should be given responsibility for rapid response to Reports, then. There must be loads of them. They couldn't delete individual posts, but could delete whole threads. If they got it badly wrong, MNHQ could shoot them at dawn the following day.

Or, as I've seen proposed on other threads, a thread should just disappear if it's reported 100 times (by separate MNers). 100 is a lot of people, and it would get rid of nasty threads - eg racist ones - pretty much instantly.

Maybe that's not an "or". Maybe that could happen as well as Tsarinas taking on more responsibility for deletions.

So I guess the thread I originally saw might actually be one of the few genuines? They weren't activating any of the aforementioned troll klaxons (money / offers of personal RL help / distressing other posters with horrible details, etc).

And even if they weren't genuine, it was a good example of sensible advice-giving from other posters, none of whom were giving any more than words of sympathy/empathy and advice. And yet troll was screamed. And the thread immediately became something else entirely.

So what we're saying is that, due to the number of genuine weirdos who get their kicks from trolling, we have to remain ultimately cynical. Shame...

C'est la vie.

No, I think that if threads started by trolls were deleted very quickly, there would be no excuse for troll hunting on threads started by genuine posters.

And it would really help if MNHQ could come on - at any stage, although preferably sooner rather than later - and say "Actually this OP is/was genuine."

Also you would get far fewer trolls on the site, because there's nothing they like better than starting a troll hunt.

Interesting idea about the Tsarinas, of which I am one. Personally, I wouldn't want the responsibility, but I imagine some would.

I think a lot of the problem is the name changing facility. I don't know whether a poster is a newbie or reg name changer. Just because they say they are a name changer doesn't mean they are IYSWIM

If there was some way to mark all posters with either a coloured dot for length of membership or have the floating bar give year and month of joining that would help. The truth is that I am more likely to believe a reg with a 'shocking/unbelievable' story than someone who appears to be posting for the first time.

Oh the ability to name change willy nilly is most definitely the heart of the issue and, I am fairly sure, unique across the 'net for that very reason.

No, name changing is not the heart of the matter because it is extremely easy simply to set up another registration. Removing name changing solves nothing.

It is the Troll Hunters that are at the heart of the matter and are a big part of the problem.

It's the heart of the matter when it comes to an established poster being called troll because they have changed their name for one issue and so an Advanced Search shows no other posts.

That's what I meant. But I do also think it encourages trolling and, even more, sock puppets.

I name change regularly. I always make it visible on my profile when I joined, not that doing that stops a poster trolling (think a couple of long time posters have been outed as trolls).

Maryz The thread I assume oneofsues is referring to, is still there.

Its all very well saying that threads by trolls need to be deleted quickly, but what denotes a troll thread? Its easy enough for MNHQ to pick up on blatant trolls, but there are times when there are no obvious links to known trolls, so its not so easy then. There are ways to find out whether someone is a troll besides IPs and the like, but they take time. If you have it that if a thread is reported 100x then its automatically deleted, I can think of at least one thread that may have gone when its actually from a genuine poster.

I'd say that 99x out of 100 I can spot a troll thread and I'm not going to say how as its a lesson in trolling, but the one that the OP is referring to hit my radar and ticks all of the boxes for a goat muncher. I have other reasons for doubting its veracity.

I've also seen a lot of other threads that are from obvious namechangers. Again without stating why they are obvious, they are. They are different and behave differently from the trolls.

I report a lot and the times when I'm not sure are usually the times when MN come back to me to say its a regular.

So wandering around and getting back to the point - Asking MNHQ to delete the trolll threads isn't as easy a request as it seems, asking people not to warn other posters that it may be a troll is difficult for those who can spot them a mile off and feel bad that people are revealing their real life traumas to a faker. Blaming troll hunters and MNHQ is like blaming the symptoms for the cause of the disease.

The problem is that Im not asking for the thread to be deleted; I'm pretty sure it wasn't started by a troll. I've been back onto it and now another poster has implied that the troll-hunter has a reputation for bullying behaviour in the past...

I've no idea if this is true, although the behaviour on that thread was pretty awful and uncalled-for. And I would imagine MN isn't going to enter the realms of sending persistent offenders of nastiness to their office; there's only so much they can do and it involves subjective judgements on what kind of behaviour is acceptable in a free forum.

But the fact remains: the thread is of no use any more unless all references to trolling are completely removed (maybe 20 posts on the end of a thread that has a few hundred other comments).

It is the Troll Hunters that are at the heart of the matter and are a big part of the problem.

Actually, no, its the trolls.

It is the Troll Hunters that are at the heart of the matter and are a big part of the problem.

Actually, no, its the trolls.