Reply to Justine

[TheOriginalFAB]

The first objection I'm afraid I can't really buy - Most of the UK population uses Facebook. Most Mumsnetters use facebook. It's a bit mad to object to facebook on principle - it's like objecting to people.

This is just daft and is irrelevant whether you buy it or not. Just because "most of ths population" use FB doesn't mean everyone on MN is going to like it. It is like saying you don't buy that some people won't eat meat as the majority of the population are not vegetarian/vegan. And it is nothing like objecting to people

The second objection I just think is misguided, as I've explained. Users' privacy is no more compromised by this button than it ever was.

It might not be "no more compromised" than before but the point is it is much more visable now and before people might not have been aware of the link button but now they are and they don't like it.

So should we change something because some people on this thread dislike it even if we think they are mistaken to dislike it? Even though what they are objecting to is already in place?

You may think we are mistaken not to like it but we are part of MN and without posters you just have a website with adverts no one sees. And the fact that it is already in place is not the issue. Before lots of posters weren't aware of it so couldn't object.

I've been doing this long enough to know that new things are never well-received - but it doesn't always mean they are bad.

That comes across as patronising and lots of posters are telling you this is a "bad" idea and lots of people don't like it.

For me this is a huge loss as I feel unable to discuss something I would have appreciated help with and that makes me feel sad. And namechanging doesn't work for me as someone always guesses who I am and outs me.

wannabe, yep.

I still am not 100% how it works tbh but have realised that if I just remove any FB friends that are also on Mn then at least threads I may have posted on won't show on my fb. I have nothing to hide but have been a lot more open about the state of my health on here from time to time than I am with some of my family as they get v worried! I don't think there is any need for people to be so rude about those who are concerned though. merry xmas x

but baubley, it being a shared laptop/pc wont actually make any difference. unless they suddenly decide to start liking/sharing threads willy-nilly or (once the glitches are ironed out) cant figure out that they need to click no instead of yes if they accidentally press the big blue button in the same place at the top of every thread (not next to post message, or even add message - on its own) the facility to share has been there for yonks. its not new. and you cant expect mnhq to take responsibility for fact that you or your family members dont log out of FB.

I always log out of FB. MN is always logged in. if dh uses the laptop to check his FB and I like something for a competition or simillar, and it appears on his wall then its not the websites fault, its dh's for not logging off and mine for not checking.

I don't think people should be angry with themselves for being naive.
We could all be savvy hard asses but life would be a bit less gentle.

I never post anything I would not mind someone else seeing but I can't quite find it in me to be sneery about people who have concerns. Being naive about the intimate feel of a website is foolish but understandable, surely.

But then I loathe facebook so I am prejudiced.

noddy, they wont show unless you either like them yourself or comment on linked ones. the onus is totally on you to use it or not.

And this about teenagers getting hold of your laptop??? (I'm frothing now!) What - the - actual - fuck? So if you are not signed out of FB, your teenager or partner may see that you, or one of your friends have 'Liked' a Mumsnet thread, they may then click on that link, which may or may not feature your MN user name as a contributor, and read stuff you'd rather they didn't?

Seriously?

What if right, what if you hadn't logged out of Mumsnet either so when they click on the link they also saw your username and could add comments? Eh? Just to be ultra paranoid because I mean, if you are going to go so far down the paranoid line you might as well do a proper job of it!

Or how about this, you just don't click on the 'Like' button? If your friends do and it pops up on your wall then so what? Presumably those friends would have discussed that thread anyway right? Only it would have been more obvious then, whereas now it's just a statement that they like a certain thread with a link. Big deal.

And if your teenager or partner is that nosey then I suggest you get into the habit of logging out of your facebook/mumsnet/email accounts before lending them your laptop, or suggest they get their own.
After all, your internet security is YOUR problem, not Mumsnet HQs. If you can't be bothered to log yourself out then why the fuckity fuck should they do it for you?

I am not worried about being outed by strangers, I don't give a fuck about that.

I'm pissed off that mumsnet hq are ignoring genuine concerns - the belated grudging admittance that it isn't a two-click process, and that cancelling it doesn't cancel it for one thing. And the "it isn't a mumsnet button, it's a facebook button and we don't know how it works" .

The complete refusal to say why it can't be hidden as an option (as the dangle-thing can be hidden as an option).

Their "well if you share a computer that's your lookout, tough" attitude.

The belated reluctant removal from very sensitive topics (they originally had it on adoption, fostering and adolescent mental health ffs), and the refusal to accept and acknowledge suggestions for other topics where it should be removed (legal, lone parents, infertility, teenagers to name a few that they have refused to even consider excluding).

And the refusal to remove it from historic threads.

All those things are pissing me off. I know the threads are google-able - I'm not stupid .

Noddy - this is what I don't get. Do people not know how facebook works?

Say you and I are FB friends right? (Unlikely I know but just bear with me here ) I post a link on my wall. That link will show up in your newsfeed along with the rest of your friends updates. Your friends cannot see what I have posted, only you can. The only way they can see the link is if you comment on it.

Or put it another way. If a friend of your sisters posted something on their wall and it showed up on your sister's newsfeed, would it also show up on yours? No.

I don't understand it then as there was a link to this thread on my fb page before I had even commented on it??????And I have never clicked or liked ever so gawd knows. I don't think its naivety just that I don't want my family reading my mn stuff. It wouldn't be a big deal if they did but it is a preference for me.

SirCliff, I'm not on Facebook, as I keep saying [sigh]. But I do share a computer with four people who do.

At present I have not been reassured by anyone that if I were to press the button by mistake (by hovering over it on the old netbook) it wouldn't post to a Facebook page - whatever facebook page, but not mine because I don't have one, but a facebook page that the laptop "recognises".

I don't want to like any threads - I just want to hide the button so I can't by mistake. That's all - and considering the amount of customisation we can do on here, I just want an answer as to why that isn't possible.

I just don't get it.

Look, if you share a pc then you need to be a bit internet savvy because if you do not log yourself out of things then anyone who shares your pc can get access to your info.

That includes your email, your Mumsnet account, your facebook, recent google searches, ebay account, amazon account etc etc. I guarantee you that your kids will know much more about this than you. All you have to do when you log in is NOT to click on the button that asks if you want to remain logged in. That will ensure that everytime you log into your personal accounts you need to provide your password. Which it recommends on most sites if you are using a shared computer. It's not rocket science.

Thanks for the ad-block tip by the way Wannabe - I think the netbook has Firefox, so if I can block the button on that it will make my life much easier .

I'd still love a couple of answers, though.

I'm baffled by the lack of communication. Mumsnet are usually so good at answering questions, but I've asked the above ones a number of times, and just got no reply which I can't understand.

And by the way, I haven't abused anyone or called anyone names. I just keep repeating the same questions in the hope that someone will answer me at some stage.

Cliff - please read thorugh my scenario. it isnt difficult to follow.

it is NOT about the fact that I will like threads all over the place. it is about the accidental clicking that can (and does, and has) happen.

I have absolutely no trust issues re: my teens using my laptop.

I have no reason to think they would even google MN, and they have no idea I use it.

I do think the very least MNHQ could have done, since they are introducing changes which impact on the way my (and other) family use the computer is let us know that htese changes have happened (and of course, ensure that the bloody button works the way it shoudl in the first place )

yes, up to me to ensure my teens don't stumble across my MN habit.

I can only take steps to ensure this if I know that I have to take steps to ensure this. as things stood, there was no reason why I would have to log out of everyhting and delete all cookies every time I closed a window on my laptop. it would have been nice to have some warning that I needed to change those habits.

Noddy - the link would be there because it came up on your newsfeed. Are you facebook friends with other Mumsnetters? Or have you 'liked' the Mumsnet site on facebook?

Anything that comes up on your newsfeed is only seen by you. Your friends and family do not see your newsfeed. They may see links if you all have shared friends - so if your Mumsnet friend is also friends with your mum then your mum will see what your Mumsnet friend has posted on their wall. Does that make sense?

What comes up on your homepage of facebook is for you. Your friends don't see the same homepage. However, if you comment on that link, then your friends will see your comment. Does that also make sense?

SirCliff, I always log out, I'm very careful to. They often don't as they don't seem to mind who sees their stuff .

I keep saying this - it isn't my Facebook I'm worried about. I really, really, really don't want to inadvertently link a thread I am on onto one of their Facebook pages.

All I want is to hide the button for me.

If they would just answer me, I'd give up asking

noddy, there would have been a link because some one else on your fb (say me) liked it and commented. so thats MY activity that you are seeing not yours. if you werent on mn and I liked and commented on this thread via FB you would still see it.

Iam, it has been handled badly, and I agree that removal from sensitive topics should be done. I post on a long running IF thread. while I am v open about my IF in RL, I dont really want a direct link to my rant about my friends 5th child in 3 years and her moaning about it. however, I take responsibility for that. I made that rant and if she found it I would have to suck it up. but I can just not link to it. and once the glitches are gone, that will be even easier than it is now.

frothing, I have read your scenario. Please read my about how these things appear on your facebook homepage (newsfeed).

ONLY IF your friends link to a thread would it appear on your homepage.
IF you are friends with Mumsnetters then this danger would always have been there. That they linked to a thread on Mumsnet that would then appear on your newsfeed.

If you don't want your teens to look at your facebook account, then next time you sign in, just make sure that the box which states 'remain signed in' is unticked. That's all you need to do.
Then if your friend does link to Mumsnet, it does not appear on your teenager's facebook and they cannot access your account.

I'm sorry, are you saying that you might accidently click on the tiny Like button at the top of threads like this one?

Shared computers are not the problem here.

People wanting to be able to use their shared computers as if they were the only user is the problem.

It's quite, quite simple.

1. Go to the Control Panel of your computer.
2. Click on User Accounts and Family Safety
3. Click on Add or remove user accounts
4. Make an account for each user.

Tell your children that they can only borrow your laptop if they are logged in on their account.

Each user makes sure that they only use the computer if they are logged in on their account.

Yes have friends here who are also on FB. I am not super concerned tbh. No concerns about ds or dp or anything like that we all have separate computers.

It really is unlike mumsnet to handle things so badly.

I think that's what bothers me most.

Usually with changes, they are very on the ball investigating concerns, reassuring people, and even if they don't act they give a reason why not.

This time it seems to be "we'll ignore you and eventually you will all go away", which I find odd.

Cliff, sorry but clearly you haven't read (or understood) it.

It is not about posting to my wall.

it is about posting to their wall accidentally, if they leave themselves logged in (as they do, frequently). and yes, I mean clicking accidentally on the like button - I have done it form my phone (not going to cause a teen FB page issue), my iPad (more likely to) and my laptop. obviously got fat fingers.

I see absolutely no reason why MNHQ did not actually know how the change they implemented acutally wokred (they ahve admitted they didn't) or why they could not let us now they were changing things.

For now, I need to check other web pages before I settle in to read MN, as I don't know whether anyone else in my household has left themselves logged in. A bit of a chore, and I cna't see my bothering with MN for much longer - it is supposed to be quick and easy, not security central.

Yes, my teens should log themselves out. they forget to. I don't always log out, as we all have our own laptops, and seemingly I am the only person not too lazy to either got to the family computer and use separate profiles, or walk up a flight of stairs to get my own laptop. mea culpa.

but again, before this change, it didn't matter. it does now.

Yes, on the laptop (netbook really), when I click on a new thread, the cursor sits in the middle of the screen. As I scroll down, it (if the thread title is sort of medium length), it goes over the button.

atm I move the cursor quickly to the side as I scroll down, but it is something I have to be aware of doing because the way the netbook is set up it clicks on anything you hover over.

And I can't set up individual user accounts on it. It barely runs as it is (ancient old thing gets exhausted and tends to hang if you challenge it at all).

I know you all think I'm nuts . I am of course checking FB is logged out for everyone and clearing cookies atm, but if I could just hide the button (as I did before Thursday), I wouldn't have to.

It has become a bit deal if dd says "can I just check FB for a minute" - I have to log out, let her go, make sure she is logged out, clear cookies, etc. It's a real faff.

No, lougle, the problem here is implementing changes which impact on ho a family shares computers without telling users that there will be an impact.

seriously, how hard would it have been to let people know?

there has, until now, been no probem with my teens picking up my laptop and quickly checking their FB (or mail, or myspace, or any other page, but obv only FB relevant for this).

there is nothign they could not/shoudl not see on my FB wall.

I do not leave MN windows open.

they leave themselves logged n to all sorts, but I do not pry - just log myself out of their FB/mail/whatever.

if there had not been a change impletmented that meant that I would (accidentally) end up posting on their FB page form another website, then there would be no problem. but that change has been made. with no warning. and then lots of protestations that the glitch 'could not happen', or 't doens't work that way' when in fact, err, it can, and does.

nice.

Actually I think they underestimated the furore this would cause. I certainly didn't think it a big deal in the slightest and am surprised that so many people didn't understand how facebook worked despite being facebook users. I think that's the gist here which I am now beginning to understand. If you don't understand the process and don't really get facebook then you might think that this is an invasion of privacy. Hopefully once the connection is explained then people will realise that it's nothing. Really it's not.

I was a member of the Mumsnet Christmas Do group on facebook. None of my family or friends are mumsnetters and I don't want them to know my user name. However I was able to post on that group, follow postings, view photos and so on without anything appearing on my wall at all. So you are able to keep things separate even in facebook.

Whatever appears on your facebook newsfeed does not also appear on your friends. I have successfully maintained a facebook account in my own name and my Mumsnet ID has never been threatened in any way. So please relax people!