Reply to Justine

[TheOriginalFAB]

The first objection I'm afraid I can't really buy - Most of the UK population uses Facebook. Most Mumsnetters use facebook. It's a bit mad to object to facebook on principle - it's like objecting to people.

This is just daft and is irrelevant whether you buy it or not. Just because "most of ths population" use FB doesn't mean everyone on MN is going to like it. It is like saying you don't buy that some people won't eat meat as the majority of the population are not vegetarian/vegan. And it is nothing like objecting to people

The second objection I just think is misguided, as I've explained. Users' privacy is no more compromised by this button than it ever was.

It might not be "no more compromised" than before but the point is it is much more visable now and before people might not have been aware of the link button but now they are and they don't like it.

So should we change something because some people on this thread dislike it even if we think they are mistaken to dislike it? Even though what they are objecting to is already in place?

You may think we are mistaken not to like it but we are part of MN and without posters you just have a website with adverts no one sees. And the fact that it is already in place is not the issue. Before lots of posters weren't aware of it so couldn't object.

I've been doing this long enough to know that new things are never well-received - but it doesn't always mean they are bad.

That comes across as patronising and lots of posters are telling you this is a "bad" idea and lots of people don't like it.

For me this is a huge loss as I feel unable to discuss something I would have appreciated help with and that makes me feel sad. And namechanging doesn't work for me as someone always guesses who I am and outs me.

it will be interesting to see how this all plays out, i think... in a way, given that the LIKE button has always been there, this is a more transparent way of operating. who knows which and how many threads were being linked to before, now with this new, numbered button, people will know immediately.

in practise, i think that there will be HOWLS of disapproval if someone likes a sensitive thread, and it will just become MN etiquette only to link to funnier, more enjoyable threads. which has already been happening anyway, the only difference now being that we will know how many have done so.

I agree Aitch. I think that if a sensitive thread has been linked half a dozen times and suddenly a lot of first time posters turn up then people will know that their thread has been linked rather than it going on behind their back as has previously happened.

likewise pile-ons will be easier to trace. (although i suppose that a smarter nasty gang girl will just cut and paste as per).

That's an interesting aspect of it.

Of course presumably there will be no way of knowing who clicked the Like and whether they intended to do it or not, but it will be a good way of maybe making posters on sensitive topics aware that the thread is being publicised off board.

yy Aitch, it is better to be able to see it's been linked

and can you imagine the rounding that will take place on a more sensitive/troll-y/angry threads? "Who The FUCK has just linked to this on FB? Do you really think this is entertainment? etc." so i think it will settle fairly quickly.

i think the thing is that it's happening already, we've all seen angry threads where suddenly a big bunch of pals turn up. hopefully this way we'll know in advance of its happening and be able to respond appropriately. because having been rounded on in the past, (as have we all, i'm sure) there is a tipping point where you think 'oh, loads of unconnected people really disagree strongly with me all of a sudden, maybe i am a dreadful nob-head after all? ', whereas with 20 links at the top of the thread you can diagnose a pile-on when you see it.

(although for the record i absolutely CRINGE at 'like', rather than 'share'. it makes me not share at all, funnily enough. take note, Zuck, your stoopid FB like-everything plan is failing with this one user.)

I think...

Sharing computers is a very real problem for this app. No way I can ensure my teens will log out of everything and disable cookies. This problem is made far worse here as we all share an ipad. It is very easy indeed to pm,report and even 'click' the facebook button on the view bar (if not hidden).

As someone else has said we all share, we all forget and we all just ignore what others have done and log out and in again. But threads appearing on a teen facebook is a very real possibility for us.

The two click, as in a proper two click with bold 'do you understand this will go straight to any facebook logged in on this machine' message will help but not prevent any mistakes; especially as we know that unless cookies are disabled there is real potential for facebook to pick up a link and post it as soon as someone else logs in.

Of course, we should all remember that MN is not a private place but I do think that the relative privacy that can be ensured on MN is a huge usp for this site.

MNHQ, I suspect that there are sound financial reasons for this but would very respectfully suggest you reconsider in terms of how it will affect what is a fairly unique site at present. This is a place where parents talk, moan and grumble as well as sharing all sorts of funny things and educating themselves in the process! It is not a formally recognised support network but that is one very strong purpose that has evolved. I think you are in danger of losing this, and I suspect this will impact upon your business.

Yes, I think if I had a shared computer or the possibility of teens using FB then not logging out, I would now seriously be considering my use of MN. The thought of mortifying your teen by accidentally linking a MN thread on their wall would be too much risk for me personally.

I'm actually quite pleased to have realised all this FB cookie business is going on - I for one had no idea of how far-reaching FB was until all this came up. I had the 'keep me logged in' button flagged on FB and was blissfully ignorant of the fact that FB was tracking my every move - not only on MN but on the whole internet.

I have a mac book and dh has shown me how to open an 'incognito page' and I can use FB now without any fear of it tracking me, or of accidentally putting a MN link (or indeed a link from another site) on there. I may just be clumsy - but I am forever accidentally clicking on things I don't mean to here - I've clicked on ads/report poster/message poster etc etc many times. It means I have to log in to FB each time I use it, which is a pain in the bum, but I'd rather that than the whole 'FB tracking cookie' thing.

I mean, how many of us seriously know to go back and delete FB cookies every time we log out?? I certainly didn't!

i don't get it. why are all you mothers of teenagers humiliating your children by posting about them on here, they could just as easily read it on MN, surely, if you are all so lax about logging out? or is it that you are happy to humiliate them and their wank socks in front of your online friends but but baulk at the idea of it being broadcast to theirs?

and let's not forget that the sequence of (unlikely) events would have to go thus:

Teen forgets to log out of FB.

Mother doesn't notice.

Mother posts on MN about wanksocks. (and isn't bothered by her teen seeing this as everyone v free and easy about logging off.)

Either Mother decides to 'like' own post in order to broadcast wanksockery to own FB chums and fails to notice that she is posting on teen's page, even though teen's page looks vastly diff. CUE HORROR.

Or Mother accidentally 'likes' own post and manages to make it through two-step doublecheck process without noticing AND THEN fails to notice that she is posting on teen's page, even though teen's page looks vastly diff. CUE HORROR.

it just doesn't seem very likely to me. sure, there have been glitches, which is a bit crap, but once they are sorted i'm just not sure what has actually changed.

Biggest lesson here has to be that things change so fast technologically, you have to think long and hard about writing anything on the web, especially if you have no choice in when and if it is removed. Fab, and anyone else worried about past posts, I'm sure MN will be reasonable about removing anything which is of genuine concern to you. I've asked them to take my posts off, have changed my name, and will remember that the world is getting smaller when I post in future. it's sad to lose a safe haven, but business is business and life is changing.

Oh, and a BIG thank you MN for removing the posts I was concerned about, you had the right not to and I appreciate that you did.

I agree with aitch here.

Also, there seems to be a real attitude that people should have the right to write what they like, about who they like, and that it is somehow other peoples' responsibility to ensure that information is not accessible by the people they are writing about.

Ultimately, if you write about your teenagers on the internet and those posts are seen by your teenagers, the only person to blame for that is you, regardless of whether the posts were accidentally posted on their walls/they saw them on your computer which you didn't log out of etc. If you don't want people reading stuff you've written, don't write it.

It's all about personal responsibility...

"it's sad to lose a safe haven," but mn was never a safe haven. It's a public website, accessible by anyone. This idea that it's safe and private and somehow anonymous is just baffling - it isn't and never was. People need to get past that.

Couple of problems with what you said, Aitch

"fails to notice that she is posting on teen's page, even though teen's page looks vastly diff" As I understood it, you don't see the page when you click Like.
"manages to make t through a too click process..." There isn't one.

As an aside, earlier today I saw a woman wearing a very unstylish hoody with AITCH across the back.

Oh for the love of god... "manages to make it through a two click process" Ignore crap typos.

Bobbin
^That's an interesting aspect of it.

Of course presumably there will be no way of knowing who clicked the Like and whether they intended to do it or not,^

I did suggest earlier (if not upthread then certainly on a similar thread) that maybe we should be able to see which posters had "liked/shared" the thread on FB . But I hadn't thought it through and others disagreed.

never was safe haven scams,sock muppetts,liars. every wee while the same ole pops up and everyone sagely thinks must take more care and mnhq issue a statement about Internet safety. a fair few of the mn trust issues have been fellow mn posters falsely representing selves to fellow posters

some fantastic and supportive stuff goes on, yes, undoubtedly. but it goes on in public forum,accessible,visible and reproducible to many

irrespective of how some conceive mn in a fuzzy confidant way, fact is it's a vibrant and public online forum

I think there is a difference between a public parenting forum, primarily aimed at mothers due to the name, and sticking it under the noses of all and sundry on FB. One you have to seek out the other is shoved in your face.

Personally, I don't put anything here that I am worried about people finding out.

so you'll be fine, in that case, soupy.

i think tech said further down that they would be implementing a two-click doublecheck within the next few days.

oh and that was me in the hoodie.

Yes, I will be fine. However I am perfectly able to have empathy with those who are worried. I am not someone who thinks "I"m Ok, stuff everyone else".

(god you looked rough )