DBF banning thread, part 2.

[Rhinestone]

OCCUPY MUMSNET continues......

Justine, that was a little topical joke, please don't ban me!

Viva, morphine?!

I think really that should be MNHQ's decision to publish the open letter. It was addressed to "MNHQ" and "Dear Justine et al" so the decision to make it public or not here should be made by them.

Oh ze melodrama....

Pan, i see what you're saying, but i can also see what ursula means. it's not quite hate speech, but could so easily be manipulated to be so. it's a fine line between misinformation and hate speech, and i think that gets forgotten so often.

Pan, tbh anyone espousing that opinion would not be quietly explained to by me rather they'd be slowly garotted with their own underpants.

I know this could possibly be wrong, but some of you who are saying that dbf is aggressive about rescue may not actually understand the issue fully or why she is so passionate.

Have you ever been to some dog rescue sites and read the stories behind some of the dogs? Ex-breeding dogs that have been kept in sheds and have no idea how to behave in a house, or on a lead; who have health problems which are not picked up so they can be treated and are left in appalling conditions; dogs that have genetic conditions which get discovered 2/3 years down the line and are then abandoned because they are no longer required. I can go on. I'd rather not, but there is a huge level of education needed, and in the case of backyard breeders having more homes available than puppies that could put pressure on them to continue breeding from their dogs instead of spaying them. These pups then go out to goodness knows who- possibly more backyard breeders or puppy farms and the cycle repeats.

If it takes strident and vocal education so that these mistakes aren't made there will be less aggression and fear surrounding dogs, then that is what it takes. Plus, doesn't everyone have the occasional "I'm going to rip off the head of the next person who crosses me" day?

"It takes a village to raise a child", how about "it takes experience to educate"? DBF is experienced, and last year when I was losing my elderly BC, DBF was kind and sympathetic on my posts in chat.

Pan, i see what you're saying, but i can also see what ursula means. it's not quite hate speech, but could so easily be manipulated to be so. it's a fine line between misinformation and hate speech, and i think that gets forgotten so often.

sorry, reading back. yes, I'd say that's hate speech. it's the enticement bit. that's the bit where it becomes hate speech. was it saying women are more likely to be raped in a short skirt, that would be misinformation. to say it entices rape is hate speech

yes I see that LS.

offski.

I think the letter just reveals how wrong headed DBFs approach is/was. She says the woman revealed she was recently widowed ' by stealth,' why on Earth should she have to go into that on a dog thread if she didn't want to? Why was she having to justify her actions to such a degree?

This aggressive approach impacts on people who may be vulnerable and shouldn't be tolerated on a thread asking for advice not seeking opinion or banter.

An OPEN letter is not just for the addressee. Do you think that the open letters to prime ministers etc printed in the newspapers are released by the likes of Blair and Cameron?

If you don't want to read it, don't.

If MNHQ want to pull it, I'm sure they will, if somebody feels it ought to be reported.

I think more highly of them that that though.

lawdy - who or what is being 'hated' here? the dress or the woman? Prob. for a different thread.

eyes, yy. am in hosp.

Please do not reinstate DBF

She had her warnings and made her choices.

All too often in life we excuse bullying because someone is "popular" or because they justify in unjustifiable by saying how chariable or because they are good a there job

It does not excuse bullying.

Incidentally I frequently disagreed with DBF but wouldn't post as I didn't want to incur DBF wrath. Having one poster rule an area of a board does not promote free speech

Well done Mumsnet

You do not educate people by hectoring them

Norman- if it had been revealed in the initial post then yes, the circumstances would indeed have come across much differently and the responses wouldn't have been perhaps as furious. That is my opinion, anyway.

I see DBF still sees fit to defend her aggression and rudeness, as being in some way acceptable then.
The ban should stick.

I should have given a stronger example, but it would be too disgusting for me to type. We all know the kind of stuff that gets posted.

fwiw just reported the letter-post. DBF has maanged to effectively unban herself. There's rules round here for a reason.

Pan I was going to type 'imagine my opinion is that women deserve to be raped'. Would that do you for hate? You are creating a semantic argument and frankly shitting on my point.

SecretNutellaFix - don't you think that is just a bit patronising? I do know about animal cruelty, and puppy farms and owners who are ignorant, or foolish, who haven't thught ahead or who can't be arsed to think now. but that doesn't mean I agree with the way that dbf usually posted.

it is not good enough to try to excuse aggression with 'but if you only knew what dbf saw on a daily basis' - dbf chooses to do the work she does. it does not give her license to attack posters who are trying to do their best in their own personal situations.

It's the "dress entices rape" thing. no article of clothing entices rape. no woman should feel she can't wear something because that'd be enticing rape. it's victim blaming, thus it's woman hate

not semantic UB - it's sustantive. Sorry you see disagreeing with you as 'shitting' on your point. Sad.

Since when did passion = antagonistic, dismissive, aggressive? Passion doesn't equal that, there are plenty of people in the world who can manage being passionate about a subject with also being humane. Why does passion become the ultimate excuse for a bad posting style?

As I've said before, gentle and empathetic posting is what changes opinion, is what educates. Smacking people round the chops with their mistakes just creates bad feeling.

The point is that the posts should not have been furious at all. You didn't know she was widowed. Another poster may have learning difficulties - should they state that st the beginning so posters can moderate their response? How about PND?

why should posters have to justify themselves to the point they are revealing personal stuff to avoid a kicking?

In the end people should be paid respect because they are people. That means show some manners.