mn hq, is it really wise to have topics that are deamed so agressive/scary that most members don't want to post there?

[wannaBe]

have just read a thread in the doghouse topic, and posts from a few posters saying that they never post there due to the agressive responses there.

Now, I know that hiding a topic could always be an option, but is it really in the spirit of mn to have separate topics that are deamed so unwelcoming/agressive that few posters actually want to post there?

I can of course see the need for certain sections, conception/sn/relationships, but it just seems against everything that mn stands for to let a topic exist that is frequented only by a few individuals while the majority feel that the responses there are agressive enough to warrant not feeling comfortable there.

Why can't we just go back to having a pets topic?

Yes, agree that it can be and often is the worst/most aggresive hoard on MN. I posted on a thread some months ago saying that I would never ask for advice about my dog on that board and I totally stand by that. But it's more than just the odd one or two poster.

Last year I posted a thread not even in the dog house, thread was more about general relation problems with DH. But in the course of the message I mentioned a problem with the dog and there were over 200 messages within a couple of days and most of them were being nasty.

Pinots, I don't have any dogs myself (thank goodness or there would be vomit up my walls!). Went to a friends house the other day and was overwhelmed by the smell of dog (think it was a sheepdog and a cross breed dog). I had to hang on to the arms of her sofa for dear life! My heightened sense of smell at the mo is torture, never really notice dogs usually.

Aye. Avoid doghouse and feminism (and sometimes aibu) if you are not interested in fighting.

hmmm that reminds me

Can't work out whether this thread is a piss-take, or the hidden world of MN. Am clearly not in the loop.

You get 'robust' views in many areas of MN though. For example, I wouldn't dare start a thread in the relevant forum saying I want to formula feed because I just don't like the idea of breastfeeding (though this is true). I would get an absolute flaming like I've never had before.

But here's the thing - the people who would flame me would have a bit of a point, because breastfeeding is best for the baby, and people would tell me what they thought I needed to hear for the good of my baby, because they care about that more than they care about my feelings. I might not want to hear it, but that doesn't make them wrong. Reading similar threads, I've got a bit offended and upset, and certainly have thought 'bullying', 'fanatics' etc. BUT - it's made me think about the rights and wrongs of what I was planning to do. It might well mean I make different and better choices when the time comes.

Same kind of thing on the doghouse, I guess. I don't 'feel' it in the way some people do, because I'd never buy a dog from a puppy farmer, never get rid of my dog etc. But the same principles apply.

Personally I'm glad MN is a place where people can speak their minds bluntly, and say uncomfortable truths. That isn't the same thing as 'bullying' or 'abuse'. What's the point of a place like this if we're only ever all nicey-nice to each other and don't say the things that need saying?

Great post Ephiny. I agree with all of it.

I have to say that when we first got our dog, the Pets Topic (as it was then) was a great place to get advice. I asked about cages, and training, beds and barking.

This is the great pity, imo. There is a wealth of information and bloody fantastic in-depth knowledge, but many posters are too wary of some of the posters in TheDoghouse to go there and ask.

It is the aggressive tone that permeates the topic, the assertion that only one viewpoint is correct.

I would not have adopted a dog from a shelter. Despite all assurances, I did not want to risk a dog who may be damaged. Selfish, perhaps, but when we got our dog my youngest was only 4yo and slightly over-excitable. I could not risk him with an unpredictable dog.

Back when we got Daphne, that was not a contentious issue. I would not have admitted it in the last couple of months.

Ephiny
IMO, it is the balance.

If I post on a bf/ff thread, then there will be a balance of opinion.

On the Doghouse threads, there is just one opinion.

And you have to remember that not all of us have experience of puppy farms. We don't know that they are bad, that rescues are better.

And, finally, if that thread had been about a different issue (ff/bf, for instance) then I would still have waded in and defended the OP.

I agree that its a very good post Ephiny - but the fact is the breastfeeders would be quite wrong to put their point across in a way that makes you feel humiliated or intimated or just plain disinclined to engage.

Ephiny, I kind of agree but there are ways of getting your point across and there is never a need to be so rude to someone who quite clearly wanted advice or support.

I agree with the people giving the advice, but definately not the way it was given.

I spent years having to put animals to sleep, literally, as I had nowhere to rehome them (though employment, they weren't mine).

This doesn't give me the right to make someone else feel like shit though.

Mme Lindor, you wouldn't have adopted a puppy that was born in the rescue centre?

EvenLessNarky
I don't know. Probably. But it never occurred to me to look there. I asked around my village and found someone whose dog had puppies.

I agree that The Doghouse is being dominated by a few opinionated and aggressive posters. Very unfortunate.

I think the special areas on mn give rise to a familiar group of regulars who see themselves as experts. That is probably good and healthy.

But then, when encountering ideas counter to theirs, they have repeated them so often and are so confident in the agreement and support of the other regulars that they forget to say
' oh goodness, that isn't a great idea. Have you thought x,y and z?'

And instead say
' you massive twat, how could you be so fucking stupid'

Because in a way all the people with the same questions have melded into one annoying asshole.

From their pov you understand. Not mine

TBH Ephiny I'm not sure that analogy stands up - I doubt you would get a flaming to the degree you think. You might get a couple of over zealous posters telling you off but I actually think you'd get support from women who have felt the same, and a lot of posts suggesting you wait and see how you feel when the baby is here or that you try a few feeds and then decide, and a fair bit of discussion amongst posters on what the benefits/risks are, and some quoting of research.

What you wouldn't get (or at least, I have never ever seen anyone get on the Feeding topic) is anyone posting about how they devote their lives to helping women BF and dealing with the problems caused by FF, and detailing the horrific illnesses they have seen in babies that could have been prevented had they BF, and accompanying all this with angry faces and lots of shouting and its-people-like-you-ing. Imagine if, for example, tiktok took that stance on every post that was not fully in favour of breastfeeding - it would not make people feel inclined to listen to the wealth of very valuable advice she could give.

No matter how strongly anyone feels about a subject, I don't feel that is a helpful or inclusive way to post - I feel that it alienates people, myself included, despite the fact I might actually agree with the point being made!

Yes Pag and very ropey behaviour it is too.

Personally I cannot bear the self appointed experts on any topic (and I include the S&B people in that). Awful.

Fortunately Bibb, I know fuck all about anything

Me either! Tis why I am universally loved and admired .

I am a self-appointed expert on chocolate.

All I've noticed from the self-appointed experts in S&B is a tendency to google inhumanely fast and a disturbingly large knowledge of the current stock of Debenhams. Not exactly an issue, surely?

Off to meld myself into an arsehole, who's with me?

people can be mean - but they may also be right. It's difficult to separate the message from the messager but needs to be done, I think.

No idea about the thread in question, just making the general point.

I think Pagwatch is right here.

MmeLindor would you ever ask whether your salary was enough to make it in Ch on Englishforum?

I did admire you defending the underdog though.

Lrd. I like s&b. But I am possibly an asshole.

I was just making a general -perhaps this is what happens- point too.

I know I get impatient with issues around sn because I feel like I have explained myself to death. I have to remind myself that this person may have never considered it from a different perspective.

That's all