dom/sub thing really annoying

[freeloader]

I'm really on board with people freely expressing their sexuality etc. Live and let live and all that. Plus, I really enjoy sex a lot.

BUT I find the whole dom/sub stuff so hard to get my head around. I don't mean there's any should/shouldn't around this because we definitely are in a free country. But, just WHAT, WHY? Sex is great. It's pleasurable. What 's with the pain and suffering? I definitely don't mean that people shouldn't be into that. I just mean that sex feels good, so why the need for pain etc? It's such as British thing. Other countries/cultures just go along with the fact that sex feels good and there's no need to mix up pleasure/pain. Sex feels good. Why involve pain and suffering?

@freeloader you've actually really got my curiosity going, what makes you sure this is a British thing? Are there studies or surveys you can refer me to? Is this an area of psychology that you work in?

If you have ever had your hair pulled, or back scratched, bum spanked or lip bitten during sex and enjoyed it, then I sure you can understand how people would take that sensation and seek to intensify it. I think you are assuming that pain during sex means there is no pleasure stimulus happening at all, and that’s usually not the case.

Freeloader......I am well aware what submission means, thanks.

In a true D/S dynamic, the Dom can do nothing to the sub without prearranged parameters being discussed.

The Dom has to learn the sub's hard and soft limits. The sub can end play at any time, for any reason.

Submission is not accepting just any thing being done. It is agreeing certain consensual acts which the Dom may do, if the sub lets them.

The Dom only gets their power with the sub's permission. In true BDSM, this is sacrosanct. If the Dom breaches a sub's limits, then consent is removed by definition, and the act becomes assault. And therefore abusive.

Perhaps, instead of asking whether I am aware of what submission is, it might be an idea to actually read up about what D/S is yourself?

Nederlander, eh? To pick the top one of "about 9,550,000 results" for the google search "bdsm club nederlands",
www.dutchbdsm.net/nederlandse-bdsm-clubs.html

The very first line on the front page is "Nederland is het Europese centrum van kinky activiteiten en BDSM avonturen".

Trying to regulate other people's sexuality (and declaring a particular kink to be a British thing) is... well, work it out for yourself. Then compare your attitude with the Dutch cultural pride in tolerance and acceptance.

delta I have never experienced those things and don't have an urge to. That's not to say they are wrong in any way. It's simply that I find sexual touching really pleasurable in itself. It has never crossed my mind to enjoy pain.

Are there studies or surveys you can refer me to? Is this an area of psychology that you work in?

I do work in academic research so I don't bandy ideas about without thinking about them.However, I don't know of any studies that specifically look at British people and BDSM but anecdotally I defy anybody to deny that British people are not able to accept sexual pleasure as natural and normal and therefore complicate it by convincing themselves that pleasure can be substituted for pain. Furthermore as many British people like to think of themselves as edgy and interesting they go along with the many constructed ideas about pleasure/pain being almost interchangeable blah blah.

Many continentals laugh at this.

You're engaging in shitty national stereotyping, Freeloader.

Yeah and the Germans have no sense of humour - can you hear yourself OP?

I don't know where to start with this.

Signed

Mrs Vanilla.

Freeloader, if you work in academic research, I am surprised at your last comments.

I thought that the plural of anecdote did not equate to data? I am also incredibly confused as to why you believe that your own thoughts are factually correct, when you display a woeful lack of knowledge about the BDSM world and D/S in particular.

I would be interested to find any evidence-based, peer reviewed research to reinforce your beliefs. But I suspect that as they appear to be based in narrow minded, cultural stereotyping, we could all be waiting some time.

I am British/Dutch and have lived in Germany for many years. This is how Brits are perceived by Dutch and Germans. Brits think they are edgy and liberated sexually but have to play games involving pain or domination in order to feel excited.

Of course I understand theory of mind. Different people experience things in different ways and yes of course I know that in some Dutch cities like Amsterdam your preferences of any kind will be normalised because that is their business and USP. But, critical approaches to this market for particular preferences should be allowed too.

I would never, ever say that a woman's sexual preferences are wrong. But, if they involve submission or pain.... perhaps think about where these feelings come from.

Surely as somebody who works in academic research you are aware that anecdotal evidence is usually regarded as irrelevant? Even if every Brit you know is into BDSM and every other 'continental' (?) laughs at the Brits and wouldn't dream of such a thing (and I've got to wonder how you would know so much about your friends sex lives!) that still wouldn't be enough anecdotal evidence to make up a study. Surely with your background in academic research this isn't news to you?

Op you now appear to be saying ALL British people are into bdsm which is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Also, a huge proportion of subs are male so fuck off with your feminism issue

In fact, fuck off all together. Stop judging people, stop talking about things you clearly have no understanding of. Fuck off back to the Netherlands and enjoy your boring vanilla sex life you judgemental cow

So thanks to anecdote, we know that Brits are all into whipping each other, Dutch are all gay and hire prostitutes while stoned, and every German is into fisting and pissing on each other while wearing lederhosen and dirndls.

Or possibly those are all... shitty stereotyping!

There's no way this can be considered a "feminist issue" there are a huge number of female dominatrices. As far as pain vs pleasure there are many articles available to explain that when endorphins are released it feels good. Pain releases endorphins and so the lines blur.

Perhaps truly understand what you are talking about before making that recommendation, Freeloader, or you run the risk of making yourself look silly.

'This is how Brits are perceived by Dutch and Germans. Brits think they are edgy and liberated sexually but have to play games involving pain or domination in order to feel excited.'

You may think this about us but I can guarantee this isn't true about me. I am British and boring, thank you very much. I don't need to be told how to be a feminist, how to feel excited or how to have sex.

This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve seen posted on here in a while, OP. You really have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m no expert at all on BDSM but I do know that different people have different sexual preferences and not all have to be traced back to some kind of trauma or oppression which is what you’re implying. Also, there’s a big stereotype that the British are uptight and prudish, how can that be true at the same time as them all being into BDSM? Because they’re both crap, and what you claim the ‘continentals’ think of Brits is about as scientific as claims that no french women shave their armpits and all Greeks like smashing plates after dinner

I won't mention what I know about the BDSM scene in Berlin and Hamburg then

Dont knock it till you've tried it

You’re misunderstanding sub dom.

It doesn’t have to mean pain.

Look at the words used in the definition of BDSM.

Plus why does it matter if you get it or not. No one is saying you need to do it if you don’t want to.

What a load of rubbish

I’m sexually dominant.

I’m also female.

Where do you put me in your generalisations op?

Dom/Sub is a control dynamic. However, there is always some prearranged agreement where the red line is, and how either party can stop at any point. BDSM is not about pain. Pain can be used indeed, but it's a really small facet. Pain is such a subjective word too, depriving the Sub of something they really desire can be incredibly painful, just not in a physical sense.

Really fab post by Tetley too.

Oh, and to the poster who mentioned enjoyment of giving oral. It's my absolute favourite part of sexual activity (sorry if tmi ).

@freeloader

I would never, ever say that a woman's sexual preferences are wrong. But, if they involve submission or pain.... perhaps think about where these feelings come from.

I'm really confused what your underlying motive is for this thread. You should go onto Fetlife and post there, I guarantee the responses would be most illuminating...