Help - between us we are messing up DD's education

[castille]

DD is 12, in Year 8 equivalent (we live abroad). We moved her after her 1st year of secondary for various reasons but now we are wishing we hadn't.

The teaching is nothing like as good as we were lead to believe, not as good as the previous place, apart from in a couple of subjects. And she has fallen in with a "cool" crowd of overindulged girls who distract each other in class and think it's nerdy to get good grades. At times she displays a horrible couldn't-care-less attitude to school and us. She is capable but her grades are slipping badly she is doing the absolute minimum of work.

I know some of this is her age and not just the school, but we are fast running out of patience with both her and the school. I have made an appointment to see her class teacher, but i'd be grateful for any other wisdom.

It is so difficult when you have changed schools once. You can't keep doing it again and again.

Has she fallen in with this bad set because she is desparate to fit in with someone/anyone at the new school? Can you try to get her some 'better' friends (do the equivalent of playdates?).

They are horrible at this age but most seem to settle by the time that they get to the GCSE years.

She was put in a class with a girl she knew at primary and was drawn into her group. I don't think I can start engineering her friendships at this age, she'd hate it and I doubt it would work, sadly.

I SO hope you are right about them settling. We can't go on indefinitely like this, after school some days the atmosphere at home is poisonous

welcome to the world of teenage girls- maddening isnt it?

you need to choose your battles and actually engage with her friends. I know from personal experience how hard this is.

i had a big conversation with dd which went along the lines of " we are glad that you have got so many friends and are happy. you go to school to get good qualifications. you need to both have friends and do well in school. there is no choice about this and it is not negotiatable at all. If you dont do as well as you can- we will know and we will take action. I then pointed out how it was possible to walk that line- minimum requirement is all home work completed to the highest standard in a reasonable time before facebook/text/ hours on phone. with this particular teenager i found it worked well to get college prospectuses and point out grades needed to get into college- find some really cool ones.

getting the school on board really works- they have seen thousands of dippy easily influenced girls- you only have the one ( or 3 in my case ). Let them know that you see education and behaviour as important and press them for a realistic expectation for effort put into homework and grades that should be reached.

It might be hard but getting to know friends is important as well- you will probably find out that their parents are exactly like you. Try to find something to like about them- find out why dd likes them.

for the sake of your sanity- ignore everything they say to each other and everything they do together- unless it is harmful or illegal. 99% of what teens say to their friends in pointless, rubbish or lies!!

Good luck- i hear they become bearable again at 18 (funnily enough this is when they have finished school)

She brought home some terrible grades on Monday, and didn't do her maths homework yesterday because she couldn't, and then refused to concentrate or listen after asking me for help.

I've tried the softly softly approach but she is of the give an inch take a mile ilk.

Should we be down on her like a ton of bricks?

I am hopeless at this

No experience but I would be of the ton of bricks school of thought to be honest.

Presumably she wants to be out with her friends and on phone/computer etc and wants the latest clothes etc? Well she has to earn those privilges. Good grades. Good homework.

x-posted ageing

V useful to have a voice of experience (3 girls, argh!). I have a younger DD too and the thought of having two like this in the house is horrifying...

You are right about the minimum requirements, she already has no computer before homework (usually not at all on school nights - no time) but I need to include phone/mobile too.

It's the what action to take if she still doesn't toe the line that I have trouble with...

Yes she is very keen on fashion, make up etc

If I confiscate make up she will borrow friends' (yuck) and put it on at school instead.

They don't wear uniform so I can't withhold all clothes purchases but can certainly refuse to buy coveted items.

I have two DD's aged 15 and 12, youngest in Y8. We have found teenagers a bit like toddlers, they need (and bizarrely seem to welcome) very clear defined boundaries. Be the parent, not the friend. Can you get her involved in some extra-curricular activities at school to widen her circle of friends?

have you thught of dangling a carrot instead?

that coverted garment of clothing she wants - well and A grade or at least a B- would certianly see that garment in her wardrobe.

Would she rather be cool and not geeky or cool and be wearing that dress?

think about it - the punishment isn't working, you can't chooose her friends so don't say a word but you can prasie her for good grade - which is what you want her to get.

let her decide - cool friends and crap grade or cool friends and good grades with good dress sense??

you have to be absolutely consistent and not deviate from it. that is, i agree, easy to say but blinkin hard to stick with. often on the basis that it makes your life easier if they are out of the home.

you need to think really hard about what is important. and with hold stuff if these do not happen. only offer rewards for real achievements. do not fall into the trap of thinking "she hasnt been quite as terrible as last week, lets give her a treat."

with dd2 who is a nightmare- if she does something that she really should not and knows better- she is grounded for a week- this includes virtual grounding- no computer, no phone, no games. This is a terrible punishment for her( and us)

be clear about pocket money- how much and when exactly she gets it. be clear about how much you will spend on clothes/toiletries and stuff. This then makes it totally clear when she is getting something extra.

my experience is that teen girls have an ability to not really see the value of what they have or what you give them- you think you are being generous- they think you are giving the minimum.

the worls doesnt have to be an endless round ofpunishment and reward but you do need to think it through carefully and set those boundaries.

So right about toddlers - she and 3yo DS need broadly similar approaches if we are to see results.

Dangling carrots could work for her - she wanted an ipod for Christmas, we said no, too expensive, but she could have one at the end of the school year IF we deem her effort and results sufficient. She isn't going to get it at this rate. Clothes can be shorter term goals.

Good point about treats vs bare minimum with things we give her, I had noticed she is never very grateful for anything. She hasn't had pocket money for ages but has plenty of cash from generous relatives so doesn't need it and I'm not inclined to give it.

It is exhausting. She is exhausting.

it is chuffing exhausting- see my name!

Have a word with generous relatives and put their cash into a savings account for her. Great advice above - (my DD is now 15)echo the absolute need for clarity. But it did help me to start from a baseline of zero, and work up, though, rather than taking things away - so each homework done to a reasonable standard would 'earn' an amount of time on the computer etc. That way, more of my interaction with her was positive. And keep emotion out of it as far as you possibly can - teenage girls are like emotion vampires!

castsille - it is almost too big the ipod..

An ipod is about £115 - so it is easier to break it down into smaller rewards that get the bigg price eventually.

Sit down with dd and aks her how much does she really want an ipod?

ok so lets break it down into two or three week block - cos three weeks isn't a long time for a teenager

at the end of the three week block - what are her targets for grades? two B+ or at least 2b-?

so she gets them and a £25 pounds is put into the pot (which is hidden away very well)

then the next three week block and as long as the grades are ok then another £25 goes into the hidden pot.

set an alarm for ever three weeks on your mobile phone - so you sit and both you and your dd and look at the grades to see whther she can get the money towards an ipod

if then one of the three week blocks she doesn't preform then she at least hasn't blown it all out of the water - she can try again next time and know that the money is mounting up and as soon as she gets the grades will get the ipod. it may take her 21 weeks to get the prize - but she is less likely to lose faith in ever getting the prise

If you just say ok in 13 weeks we will look at your grades and say yes or no to an ipod - it is too far away and if she messes up she will lose the motivation to get good grades as seh aint going to get the ipod if she has messed up in the first three weeks - so she will not bother for the next 7

it is like getting a toddler to sit on the naughty step for 13 minutes - they just can't do it -so you treat a toddler to saller times - the same as with a teenager small steps

Yes will stop giving the option of cash or savings when they are given money.

Fab advice re saving for the ipod, will tell DH about that and set it, I like the way she can give herself a better chance of succeeding.

And generally I MUST BE CLEARER with her. I know I can be too vague. Funny how you get used to being direct and clear with little ones, then you stop needing to, then you do again. Feels like everything I taught her in that middle childhood is wasted somehow!

I drew up a contract for behaviour with mine and made them sign it. It spelled everything out in black and white, so no excuse for all this business of not understanding what was said or meant.....

No - what you taught them when they were little is never wasted - it goes to the back of their brain between the ages of about 14 and 17, then it starts to re-emerge. By the time they are 21 they are telling you how much they appreciate it!!!

3littlefrogs - what did the contract say? I'd be v interested to know...

Just a thought - did she want to change schools? If not it might be a reaction about leaving her old friends etc.

I have 3 dds (18, 15 and 11) and have NO advice. Dd2's school are running a workshop on 'How to cope with teenage girls' in a couple of weeks. I signed up straightaway!

Originally no, she liked the old place but understood why moving was necessary. She settled in to the new place at lightening speed due to presence of several familiar faces.

But now that we're not happy with it she is throwing "well you chose to move me! It's YOUR fault I'm like this, that's what the new school is like!" (which is rubbish)

Can I come to your workshop?!

Hi - just come back to this. It is a while ago, but it was an agreement regarding basic good manners, noise levels, not leaving stuff all over the house, washing and ironing etc.

It was also an acknowledgement that their dad and I worked hard to put roof over their heads, food on table, clothes on backs etc.

We negotiated what was reasonable, compromised on a few things and basically it was a useful bench mark to refer to.

We still had our challenges and arguments, but I think it was useful.

It is much better to discuss boundaries and choices/behaviour when people are calm - not in the middle of a row about something else IME.

Hmm, might try that, though I have a feeling it will all go out of the window when she throws a tantrum.

Like now in fact - major meltdown as DH has just laid down the law with knobs on and grounded her every level until further notice

Histronics abound.

were the rules clear and was hse warned that dh was going to ground her until she is 42 further notice?

It is ok to lay the law down as long as there has been a warning and the warning included the punishment that was going to happen, in this case a grounding until further notice.

Is dh getting wound up that she will not do as she is told and then he lashes out?

There is an element of that, DH is incensed that she is wasting her ability, flouting the rules and taking us (partic me) for a ride.

But this didn't come out of the blue. Yesterday she broke the rules in all the areas for which she is being punished (computer use, disobeying a direct instruction to come straight home, schoolwork not done properly) so all the consequences are relevant. A shame for her that she had to do it all at once.

castille- there is much drama all round- dd2 will storm out of the house into the dark/cold/wet. and can get so angry about everything.

i find this hard because i wasnt like this as a child and i went through the whole blaming myself thing. If i was a better parent she wouldnt be like this. Then on reflection i realised that my sister was like this and my parents were not bad parents.

dd2 is brilliant at pressing all my buttons and will say/do anything to get her own way- including wearing me down. i must admit that i hate her doing this because i basically feel that she should love me and you dont treat people that you love like this.

however, i hate to say it but all of these skills in a watered down fashion will stand her in good stead, I reckon she should be a barrister or politician such is her ability in advanced argument and spin!

make sure that you and dh manage to have a laugh about it together as she storms off in a toddler tantrum- it helps!