Not happy my 13 year 's class old had recruitment presentation from armed forces today

[isitmyturn]

DS1 had a talk by someone from the Navy today. My gut reation is to be horrified with visions of my PFB going off to war.
I had no idea that "careers" advice started so soon and in this form?
He's just into year 8, very academic but worried that he doesn't know what he wants to do career wise. DH and I have tried to tell him not to worry, just work hard for now and he doesn't need to make a career choice until he's older.

I think that a Forces presentation makes it blatantly obvious that they may kill or be killed, although many jobs within them are not going to be killing anyone. My DS was shown all the RAF planes at his presentation-if they are bombers I really don't think it needs someone to tell a 13 yr old that in war situations bombs will be dropped and people will die, they can work that out for themselves! It is also obvious that if you fly in an RAF plane in conflict the enemy will try to destroy you-if they succeed you will die.
They are not going to dwell on it-any job would concentrate on the positives. Young people can work these things out for themselves -they are not so thick as to need someone to spell it out. Some think it worth the risk-others don't.
They are giving a career presentation-they are not recruiting impressionable children.
(I can't see why Iggi would ban McDonalds from doing a presentation.)
I haven't been to any talks on teaching where they tell you that you may as well live at school because for every hour in the classroom you need an hour out of it!
People always go for the positives.
The army has always been a way of self improvement. I have discovered that my great xxx grandfather was an orphan in the very early part of the 19th century. He was a boy soldier at 14. He was cannon fodder, but he was lucky and worked his way steadily up the ranks (as far as you could in those days). He had time in Gibraltar and was stationed in Canada for about 5 yrs. He was able to retire and go onto another job with a pension and died well into his 80s. I don't think his prospects were good if he stayed at home-probably domestic service or general labourer. Yes-he ran a tremendous risk of being killed-but he wasn't and it gave him a much more interesting and profitable life. His wife moved around with him and they had 12 children. It is still a way out for people today.

Yes, if people had been honest about the hours needed to teach well, I'm not sure I would have done my PGCE. If you are teaching AS, it's more like 2/3 hours prep for every hour of lesson time.

People perceive the Armed Forces as necessary it seems to me; but view them as remote and not real people. If people didn't join up to fight for Queen and Country; or for the other myriad of reasons they have, then we wouldn't have the Armed Forces, and that would be a great loss.

I don't think I would go into teaching if I had known. I love it in the classroom-I just hate all that goes with it. When they are recruiting for teachers you can be sure they don't mention it!
I think when they give career presentations for doctors they concentrate on saving lives, they gloss over the fact that not all lives are saved and the doctor will be the one to tell the relatives.
Any presentation will concentrate on the positive-if anyone seriously wants to take it up they will then go into it more deeply.

I think that anyone would be glad of the military in a disaster-in a bad landslide, or something similar, the army would be the people digging them out- a disaster at sea and the helicopters would be there. If your close relative were a hostage you would most probably want someone i.e the army to rescue them. Most people seem to want the armed services there on one hand, but on the other they seem to be saying that they are not people they want to know. I have lived in quite a few military areas, and taught DCs from military families and they are all perfectly reasonable, friendly people!
I am pleased that my DSs didn't follow it up, and I expect that if they were wanting to do something on the front line then I would have tried to talk them out of it, BUT I don't object to them listening to a careers presentation -neither would I object to McDonalds doing one. I think that the best way would be to have lots of different people giving presentations and the DC chooses whether they want to go or not. The important part being that the DC chooses, and the parent doesn't tell them what to choose.

Thanks for further info, turn.

No, I would not be very happy with the school aloowing the navy in as a marketing promotion.

It also annoys me that schools let Scripture Union in to push their wares.

DD(13) came home with a consent form yesterday to go to an all singing all dancing day out to the local army barracks where she will do paint balling, assault course, climbing tower, laser shooting, aerial ropeway, parachute jump traing tower and mini moter bikes.

Its classed as an army careers exhibition. Subtle or what!

The form is 3 pages long and has to be countersigned by somebody unrelated, to make sure you know that if your child has an accident the MoD will decide if you have a claim for compensation

DD(13) came home with a consent form yesterday to go to an all singing all dancing day out to the local army barracks where she will do paint balling, assault course, climbing tower, laser shooting, aerial ropeway, parachute jump traing tower and mini moter bikes.

Its classed as an army careers exhibition. Subtle or what!

The form is 3 pages long and has to be countersigned by somebody unrelated, to make sure you know that if your child has an accident the MoD will decide if you have a claim for compensation

You don't often get those opportunities from anywhere else teamcullen. Our local army base does days in half term and holidays for DCs and they are really good and free. Mine had a great time-and no they didn't want to join the army! Funnily enough they weren't recruiting 8 yr olds-I think it is community service. There are very few organisations that let DC do adventurous things.

Oh I dont mind her going for the day. Im sure she will have a great day, and wont be swayed to joim up.

Im more bothered about signing away my right to the people organising it wavering their right to liability insurance. its hard enough for soldiers returning from war to get compensation.

If, God forbid, anything happened to any of those children (which Im sure it wont) it would be near impossible to claim against the MoD.

Sadly it is a compensation culture and parents will sue. This is why schools ban conkers and ice slides etc. People have to accept that adventurous activities hold a risk-accidents happen. I would prefer that my DCs took acceptable risks than played safe and stayed at home.

You have me wrong Piscesmoon. I let my DCs do lots of adventurous activities, infact DS1 is away at camp with the cubs right now, where he will be building fires ,climbing trees etc. Plus I have never put a claim in for compensation in my life.

But this day is classed as a careers exhibition which DD will be attending with school.

The consent form states

The MoD does not have public liability insurance, and acts as its own insurer.

The MOD has no legal liability to deal with claims for injuries resulting from pure accident or "Act of God", Therefore you may wish to consider personal accident insurance.

I have an issue with sending my child on a careers exhibition, and having to consider paying for personal accident insurance.

If she is on an aerial ropeway and the branch of a tree the rope is attached to snaps, and she falls 100 feet and left permenantly brain damaged, is that classed as an act of God.

Surely if they are surgesting that you have personal accident insurance, they are aware that accidents are a possibility. Any other company has to have public liability.I undrestand that they look after their own for people in the Army, but I do fell that they should have it if they are inviting children to take part in any sort of activity.

The army simply couldn't afford the insurance premium. I expect they are running it free. Any other company would cover it with the cost of the activity, and most people wouldn't be able to afford it. They are quite clear- so it is your choice, send them, don't send them or get personal accident insurance. I would be very annoyed if I got there and only found at that point. They have been very upfront.

They are running it, I expect, from their recrutment budget. My DD is not part of the armed forces she is a member of the public, and therefore should be covered by public liability insurance.

My mum helps run a credit union and has to pay public liability insurance incase anybody trips or falls while on the premises. She gives up her time every week to help run this and does not get paid, neither do any of the other people who run it. Any profit goes to the credit union members. Im sure if they can manage to pay, so can the MOD.

I don't expect the MoD could get public liability insurance, as the public aren't generally allowed into bases or dockyards. They are also not any other company, and nor do they run like one.

I would contact the organisers to raise your concerns and ask what would happen in the scenario outlined.

When one of my tutor group went on a weekend like this and broke her ankle, she was given medical treatment and taken back to her home when she was fit to travel; exactly as would have happened at school.

This article is very timely to the discussion. It talks to young recruits about why they joined up, their perceptions of training/recruitment and what they think of being described as "...cannon fodder...".

Fury of the Firing Line

Excellent article, but some people want to remain blinkered and anti the forces, without bothering to investigate what they are all about.

Hadn't heard 'pencilnecks' before. Good one.

Was talking to a Bulgarian Officer yesterday; sounds like their Armed Forces are respected far more than ours.

I think the article - and the last couple of comments - are getting too defensive.

I am all for the armed forces and I respect them as much as anyone else doing a job to the best of their abilities. That is not what this thread is about.

And if it's just light-hearted banter to come away with pencilnecks, what's so wrong with cannon fodder?

I didn't post the article to be defensive, honestly. It was this section of tyhe article that made me think of this thread:

^"At last year's National Union of Teachers' annual conference, for instance, troops were described as "cannon-fodder for the profits of oil companies", the implication being that soldiers are led like sheep to the slaughter, rather than soldiering being the profession they have chosen for themselves.

Plaid Cymru has called for a ban on Army recruitment in schools. They claim the Army is unfairly targeting schools in the poorest areas of Wales. Again, this furthers the view that new recruits chose the Army only because they have no choice but to sign up."^

Isn't that the view of those on this thread who are annoyed/worried by the Forces visiting schools/colleges? I thought the article provided a bit of context, that's all.

imo, the NUT statement implies that oil interests can be a major reason for a war. I do not think they are implying that soldiers are mindless sheep at all.

In fact, I think the writer of that article has a view of teachers as left wing liberal softies and he is using a couple of very poor examples to try to substantiate his point of view.

Cannon-fodder sounds pretty derogatory to me and yes, I would class NUT members as left wing liberals, although I don't know about softies...bordering on the communist some of them, I think, and as you can tell by my moniker, I know and have worked with lots of teachers.

is pencilneck not derogatory?

lol at name doug

Descriptive and accurate methinks!! However, the RN are more polite and refer to them as civvies.

som epeople think cannon fodder is fairly descriptive and accurate too. There we go.

Here's nyle with much-needed input

It's fine for armed forces to have many derogatory names 'cause they is so strong and disciplined and proifessional and humorous.

Isn't it just terrible that commie barmy don't-know-they're-born should-know-better teachers have an opinion on forces in school

"However, the RN are more polite and refer to them as civvies. "

Hee! By and large, that's how the Army refers to them as well but I have heard a few choice monikers that make me smile from time to time.

On a serious note, teachers have every right to have an opinion on who visits their school. It's the singling out of the Forces as big, bad, cultish organisations that want to dupe poor ignorant young people into throwing themselves in harm's way that annoys me. Why are we ghetto-ised?

The soldiers, sailors and airmen I know - of all ranks - are well-informed and, by and large, joined the Forces because it offered them a worthwhile career that interested and stimulated them.

Just like everyone else, then.