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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

I've just had a phone call from the mum of one of dd's friends saying that dd is bullying her daughter.

135 replies

seeker · 13/02/2009 12:55

They are both in Year 8 at different schools. They go on the bus together, and apparently, dd has been ignoring the other girl, turning her back on her, deliberately leaving her out of conversations, generally excluding her until this other girl doesn't want to go to school and is in tears every night.

I am completely gobsmacked by this - I just didn't think my dd would behave like this - but I know that's what all bully's mothers say, so I'm ignoring my mother tiger feelings.

I'm not sure how to take it forward - I need to talk to my dd, I know, but do you think it would be a good idea to have a "meeting' with dd, the other girl, her mother and me? And I'm meeting dd and another friend for a pizza tonight - the friend goes on the bus too - should I talk about it with both of them or wait to talk to dd alone? Help!

OP posts:

SoupDragon · 02/07/2009 13:20

Can you get someone your DD doesn't know to get on the bus a stop before them and see what they get up to?

ahundredtimes · 02/07/2009 13:21

But I think the other girl DOES think she's telling the truth. Honestly.

I think she feels awful when she's on the bus. I think it is like this for children who aren't confident or easy at the social stuff. They do blame other people for making them feel that way. It's not their fault, but they need some assistance.

Which is why I'd say on the phone, what I said earlier.

ingles2 · 02/07/2009 13:32

Christ Alive Seeker! Unbelievable! Everyone else is much more rational and calm than I would be... much wiser too
I would phone her and say, following our meeting in Feb, dd has tried to include this girl without much success. You yourself have witnessed her being blanked and quite frankly following this mornings debacle where the mother bullied your dd, that you would prefer that her dd didn't attempt to speak to your dd as obviously their friendship isn't very strong and it will stop her dd becoming upset or reinforce her lack of confidence....
....
Mind you, you know in Feb, when you said dd was angry after the meeting... you don't think there is any chance dd might now actually be being mean to this girl as a direct result do you?

Original poster

seeker · 02/07/2009 13:32

Yes - ahundredtimes - that's certainly why I thought when this whole thing started - and I I have acted on that belief all the way through. It is starting to feel a bit as if she's deliberately targetting my dd though. Interesting suggestions about ringing the school - hadn't though of that.

OP posts:

FiveGoMadInDorset · 02/07/2009 13:36

I think this girl is painfully shy and socially immature and is struggling to establish friendships, I also believe that she is being pressured by her mother who either hasn't noticed or denies that her daughter is struggling socially and therefore her duaghter is making up stories and putting the blame on your daughter so she doesn't have to admit to her mother she is struggling.

Where you go from her though is difficult. If you can have a rational converstaion with her then tell her what your DD has said and also what ther other parents have said. I would also inform both schools what is going on if she decides to inform either of them about the 'bullying'.

ahundredtimes · 02/07/2009 13:39

Yeah, it's her insecurity isn't it? She's blaming other people because she isn't as popular as she'd like to be, and she prickles on the bus and your dd is so its all her fault, and she's lashing out.

It's sad really.

And really hard for you and your dd.

her mother clearly doesn't have a clear sighted view on this.

Definitely stick by your dd

ringing school sounds interesting. Might be better than confronting the mother - who clearly would rather think her dd is being bullied, rather than address the girl's self-esteem problems etc

really tricky

ingles2 · 02/07/2009 13:42

How on earth can the mother think that this approach would sort the situation or help her daughter at all though...
surely this is just going to make the situation much much worse. All the other girls will discuss the fact her mother was at the bus stop screaming like a banshee...
poor poor girl... I do feel sorry her.

ahundredtimes · 02/07/2009 13:49

The mother thinks she is being bullied, because the girl also thinks she's being bullied because she feels so awful when she's on the bus.

The mother can only see one way to deal with it - confront the bully.

the bully isn't really a bully though, that's the problem

it's a mess really

Now I think you should ring the mother. Say you understood she approached your dd, you think the situation is not as the mother sees it. And say, they don't dislike her, you have looked into it - you see no evidence of bullying, you would come down hard if you did. From what you can see her dd feels left out and isn't sure how to be more included, and isn't very sure of herself socially. What evidence of bullying does she have? How are things at school?

ingles2 · 02/07/2009 13:56

oh I know that 100x... but I just can't imagine getting so wound up in a situation that you can't see the repercussions for your child. I would probably mention that to the mother Seeker. She should be aware she's exacerbated the situation.

ahundredtimes · 02/07/2009 14:00

No, me neither. That's because we're sane.

ingles2 · 02/07/2009 14:01

bruffin · 02/07/2009 14:06

I have been in the position of the other mother with my DS being bullied on the train by friends' dcs when he started secondary. It is extremely stressful situation to be in and it doesn't help when the other parents are in denial. The other mother must feel at the end of her tether if her daughter is still coming home upset after all this time.

I did witness some of the bullying ie went to meet ds off the train and found the other boys hiding from him etc, although I would admit he probably was being oversensitive at times, it was the fact it was going every day which wore him down.

Thankfully it did sort itself out and ds is now friends with them again, but at the time it was horrible and i found myself doubting ds when i shouldn't have. He was acting like a bullied child, very quiet and withdrawn at school and didn't want to make friends with anyone after his old friends had let him down so badly.

I don't understand why you expect this girl to behave friendly to your daughter if she feels she is being bullied by her. There is obviously something going on, which needs to be sorted out with this girl. It must be in a very stressful situation for both sides.

Original poster

seeker · 02/07/2009 14:12

Hang on bruffin - are you suggesting that I am in denial? I don't think I am - could you tell me more if you think I am?

And I don't think I expect her to be friendly to dd - it's just that if she says that everyone's ignoring her, it's a bit odd if she ignores a friendlly greeting.

OP posts:

Bucharest · 02/07/2009 14:15

Good lord, seeker, how awful for your daughter....I wouldn't contact the mother, I'd contact the school.

This kind of happened to me at school- I wasn't friends (or enemies) with a girl in my class who lived near me. Her mother went to see the teacher and I was bollocked for "not being her friend". I wasn't not her friend IYSWIM? I remember the injustice of it to this day.

The word bully is thrown about far too often IMO. There is a huge difference between systematic bullying and just "not being particularly friendly" This other girl is not being bullied. Your daughter was bullied by the girl's mother though.

GeneHunt · 02/07/2009 14:19

Didn't you discover that your daughter had been lying to you Seeker about other things or have I confused you with someone else?

We had an incident between parents outside our school which was horrible to see. One parent couldn't seem to 'get' that the reason another child was reluctant to acknowledge her son was because her son had been vile to him for weeks.

Good luck in sorting it out.

ahundredtimes · 02/07/2009 14:22

See, I've been in versions of this situation with my ds too. He often thought he was being bullied because he's so sensitive and prickly, and feels slights that would glide over another child's head. There was one child who was mean, but the rest weren't, but it felt to him like they were. He got in a habit of blaming other children for his lack of confidence.

We took his concerns v. seriously - that he felt like he was being bullied - which was the right approach I think.

This is what the girl's mother should do too

bruffin · 02/07/2009 14:24

No not necessarily, but I was just trying to put the other mothers point of view, because I have been there as a parent and I know how it feels.
But the way the other girl behaved to your daughter is a "classic" bullied child. If she feels bullied by your daughter and I meand "if" then she probably felt your daughter was only being friendly to her because you were there.

Original poster

seeker · 02/07/2009 14:24

There was an incident about ICT homework - is that what you're referring to?. She did lie then, but it was a very complicated situation and much more to it than met the eye.

I have said all along that I haven't automatically believed her - and that it just looks as if the evidence indicates she is telling the truth.

OP posts:

Bucharest · 02/07/2009 14:25

I'd say that allowing everyone to give their own interpretation and meaning to the word bullying would be entering very dangerous territory indeed.....

Just because someone says they are being bullied does not mean that they are.

Original poster

seeker · 02/07/2009 14:27

I only mentioned that I had seen my dd being "blanked' by this girl because that's what she had said happened all the time and I had, on that one occasion at least, seen it happen. Of course I have no idea what happens when I'm not there!

OP posts:

GeneHunt · 02/07/2009 14:35

Is there another bus? Short of both girls agreeing to ignore each other completely, I can't imagine what the other Mum actually wants to happen next. Difficult.

iamtrufflepig · 02/07/2009 15:19

Girls of this age can be really bitchy and extremely devious. Surely you wouldn't really believe that the other girls are going to say that your dd is bullying this girl, they are going to all stick together. It is going to be difficult to get the real picture unless there is somebody on the bus who isn't involved with either of the girls. Obviously this girl believes that she is being bullied even if her interpretation of bullying is excluding her (although maybe in that special way that girls of this age can). It is not right for the mother to have a go at your dd though.

Original poster

seeker · 02/07/2009 15:50

I have said lots of times I don"t automatically believe my dd!!!!

OP posts:

mummyrex · 02/07/2009 16:26

Hi Seeker, just my 2c but I think you have handled things really well. In my experience I have seen even the nicest most reasonable mums get ultra defensive when approached by another mum regading their child bullying and completely deny, or even worse, justify all - which you did not do.

I think this could be just a matter of perception. That doesn't make it any less upsetting but difficult to sort.

I was bullied at school (or feel I was!)in this sort of way and more overtly so I am very sympathetic BUT i think the other mother has crossed a serious line and probably needs to be doing more to help her DD deal with the situation not attacking your's.

I call the school for advice, perhaps talk to the bus company and ask them to tell the driver to call the police should this woman turn up again.

Merrylegs · 02/07/2009 16:46

I think the other girl is feeling very low and is no doubt genuinely upset. But the mother should find her a strategy to deal with that, and a way to boost her self esteem. Something like, "you must be feeling very upset, but it is only a bus ride. Be glad these girls aren't at your school. Plug yourself into your ipod and ignore them. They are looking for a reaction. Don't give them one. You are better than that."

She may well have blanked your DD when she said hello, but if she is wary of your DD's attitude to her she may have been suspicious and not had the confidence to accept it for the friendly gesture it was. She does sound very insecure and I am sure she is a worry for her mother, who is trying to make things better but actually not!

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