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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

I've just had a phone call from the mum of one of dd's friends saying that dd is bullying her daughter.

135 replies

seeker · 13/02/2009 12:55

They are both in Year 8 at different schools. They go on the bus together, and apparently, dd has been ignoring the other girl, turning her back on her, deliberately leaving her out of conversations, generally excluding her until this other girl doesn't want to go to school and is in tears every night.

I am completely gobsmacked by this - I just didn't think my dd would behave like this - but I know that's what all bully's mothers say, so I'm ignoring my mother tiger feelings.

I'm not sure how to take it forward - I need to talk to my dd, I know, but do you think it would be a good idea to have a "meeting' with dd, the other girl, her mother and me? And I'm meeting dd and another friend for a pizza tonight - the friend goes on the bus too - should I talk about it with both of them or wait to talk to dd alone? Help!

OP posts:

cat64 · 13/02/2009 21:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

scienceteacher · 14/02/2009 09:45

I would just tell DD to be more friendly with this girl - to include her in the conversation etc.

People are very quick to throw the bullying word around - but sustained excluding is bullying. It does seem odd that this other girl can't grin and bear the journey, and then be among her own friends when she gets to school. It is very normal on public transport for school groups to stick together and not mix. It's also fairly normal Year 8 behaviour to change the intensity of friendships, but it is worrying if it goes on for a long period of time.

I imagine that your DD is being insensitive rather than going out of her make to make this girl's life miserable. I would be fairly honest with her ("I was chatting with Mrs X the other day, and she said that her dd didn't enjoy the bus journey. She felt that everyone else had friends and she was billy-no-mates, etc etc. Please could you make an effort to include her in your chats, blah blah blah"). If your DD is bullying, she will react by justifying it or getting embarrassed about it; if she is simply insenstive, she will do as you suggest.

Don't involve the school - it's nothing to d with them.

TiggyR · 14/02/2009 13:53

Hey, seeker have you seen yourself in print in today's Times? Recognised a few other names as well and I've only been contributing on here for less than a week!

MollieO · 14/02/2009 22:14

If dd is excluding this girl from conversations and encouraging or influencing others to do the same then that is bullying. If this girl just cannot hold her own in conversations then that has more to do with your dd being the confident one and the other girl lacking in confidence or social skills and isn't bullying. Having had an older brother who was bullied very badly at grammar school I would not expect the girls to sort it out amongst themselves if it really is bullying.

cat64 · 14/02/2009 23:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster

seeker · 15/02/2009 22:36

Scared to ask where, tiggy - but where?

Dd tells me that she has absolutely no idea what this girl is talking about and she is sure she's done nothing on purpose to upset her. Other mother is insisting on us meeting, so we are going to get together on Tuesday afternoon to talk about it. Not sure what's going to happen. Dreading it - and I'm sure the other girl is too - I wonder if she's dug a hole for herself that she'll find hard to get out of. Unless my dd is a MUCH better liar than she has proved to be in the past, the other girl is going to find it hard to justify her accusations - and it's going to be very awkward.

OP posts:

fryalot · 15/02/2009 22:39

I think you're handling this really well.

Good luck for Tuesday.

here you are in the Times. Fame at last, eh?

Original poster

seeker · 15/02/2009 22:58

And I got a text read out on Radio 5 last week too!

OP posts:

fryalot · 15/02/2009 23:07

oooh, can I have your autograph?

Original poster

seeker · 15/02/2009 23:09

No - you'll only sell it on ebay!

OP posts:

fryalot · 15/02/2009 23:19

damn, my cunning plan has backfired.

(I knew here when she was just an ordinary mumsnetter, you know )

fryalot · 15/02/2009 23:19

her not here

Heathcliffscathy · 15/02/2009 23:25

for me, the fact that your daughter and her friend immediately recognised that something was going on would ring alarm bells....not saying that your dd is doing what she is accused of, but think that if both of them immediately piped up that she is always saying she is being left out, that could easily be a way of them denying (to themselves as much as anything) that they are being purposely hurtful...this is just the kind of response that a bully might make. think it definitely needs further exploration, on tuesday i guess, before conclusions of guilt or innocence or misunderstanding are drawn.

Heathcliffscathy · 15/02/2009 23:26

and i really feel for you btw, it is horrible that this could be happening or that your dd is accused of it wrongly.

Quattrocento · 15/02/2009 23:29

Applaud the OP's sensitivity and recognition that her dd may be at fault - though equally may not be.

Let's get this in proportion though. They attend different schools, so we're talking about a bus ride in the mornings. One bus ride, lasting how long? And the net result is "this other girl doesn't want to go to school and is in tears every night." Because that sounds like a massive over-reaction, given that your dd might at worst be not including this girl in conversations. Is there something more in the other family's dynamics?

Heated · 15/02/2009 23:36

I'm not sure what this other mum hopes to achieve by, "insisting on us meeting, so we are going to get together on Tuesday afternoon to talk about it".

Is this really what parents do for their children these days, manage their friendships for them?

MollieO · 15/02/2009 23:57

Like I said it depends on the circumstances and there may be an overreaction on the other girl's part or there may be a deliberate exclusion. The OP's dd may have tried to move on with friendships but this girl didn't take the hint. I agree if the girl has difficulty making other friends then it isn't the OP's dd's problem. If she has been sitting with OP's dd and dd has been ignoring her and encouraging others to do the same (that being key) then I'd be having words if it were my child.

Whatever the true reason I don't think this is an appropriate age to expect them to work it out for themselves without some help. I wouldn't think it was 'managing their friendships for them'. My brother was bullied so badly at school that the head threatened to permanently exclude the three boys responsible. It was my father who suggested giving them a second chance. It was entirely appropriate that he was involved and not left to my brother to try and resolve. I was also at school with someone who was bullied mercilessly by other boys. He killed himself at 16.

Original poster

seeker · 16/02/2009 05:27

There is a group of about 10 girls who get on at the same bus stop to go to different schools in the next town along - about a 30 minute bus ride. They are the only year 8s travelling and the girl in question is the only one going to her school, so there's no one else for her to sit with. The majority of the group are going to dd's school, so it would I suppose be very easy to feel left out if most of the group are going on about what they are doing at lunchtime and so on. And, actually, quite difficult to make sure everyone's included even if you are really trying to. And dd's two best friends are in the group, so she's going to be focussing on them. I wish I could put a webcam on the bus so I couls see what's really going on!

OP posts:

Original poster

seeker · 18/02/2009 05:59

Just an update. After long discussion, it seems that the problem is more that dd is always in the centre of the group and the other girl doesn't feel she gets a look in - it's more that the others tend to crowd round dd leaving her on the edge. She didn't realize that most of the rest of the group have known each other since Reception while she went to a different primary school and so only knew them intermittently from out of school activities. So she couldn't understand why they had made such close friends so quickly while she was still feeling on the edge. She also talked about some issues at her school that she hadn't told her mother, so that was a good thing. I think the real problem is that she really wants to be friends with dd, and dd hasn't notices her slightly reserved advances in the melee of the bus. Certainly the account she gave yesterday was different from the account she's been giving her mother that caused her mother to call me. Dd is now a bit confused - she has agreed to make more of an effort - but she's also pretty cross that this girl talked about her in the terms she did and put her in this quite difficult situation. Oh well, we'll see that happens next term.

OP posts:

SuperBunny · 18/02/2009 06:06

I was wondering about this today. Poor DD. Hope things are better after half term.

pellmell · 18/02/2009 11:15

Oh dear! She sounds like an unhappy little soul......I wondered about this too!

I hope mum remembered to thank both you and your daughter for being so reasonable and apologised to your daughter especially.

Whilst I think it is essential to teach our children to be kind, generous, fair etc etc they do not need to take on the role of the rescuer....that's a bit to much of a burden.

Heated · 18/02/2009 15:09

So, as suspected, the problem lies with the girl and not with your dd's "bullying". I still maintain this is one "hands-on" mother. Most girls surely would be mortified at their mother setting up a meeting to part-accuse and part-engineer a friendship.

MollieO · 18/02/2009 20:43

Your poor dd. It isn't her fault that she is popular! It is good though that she is understanding of the other girl. I hope the other girl's mum appreciates that.

Original poster

seeker · 19/02/2009 18:04

Strangely, dd has been thinking about this a lot, and it has suddenly dawned on her that it means she must be quite popular - she's never thought of herself in that way before! So in a way it's been useful for her. No, the other mother didn't apologize to dd, although she did thank her for coming!

OP posts:

abraid · 19/02/2009 18:27

It's so heartening that people take this kind of thing so seriously now. (Though I'm glad that your daughter has been vindicated, Seeker! She's obviously a lovely girl.)

My life was hell at school for some years because a group of girls decided to 'do' exclusion and tormenting on me. ?

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