I've just had a phone call from the mum of one of dd's friends saying that dd is bullying her daughter.

[seeker]

They are both in Year 8 at different schools. They go on the bus together, and apparently, dd has been ignoring the other girl, turning her back on her, deliberately leaving her out of conversations, generally excluding her until this other girl doesn't want to go to school and is in tears every night.

I am completely gobsmacked by this - I just didn't think my dd would behave like this - but I know that's what all bully's mothers say, so I'm ignoring my mother tiger feelings.

I'm not sure how to take it forward - I need to talk to my dd, I know, but do you think it would be a good idea to have a "meeting' with dd, the other girl, her mother and me? And I'm meeting dd and another friend for a pizza tonight - the friend goes on the bus too - should I talk about it with both of them or wait to talk to dd alone? Help!

OK - I've bumped this just in case anyone can help.

Since my last post, I have been encouraging dd to be friendly to this girl, but dd says it's really hard, she won't say more than yes or no and sometimes not even that. We saw her in town once and dd went up to say hello and the other girl blanked her (I saw that for myself). So I've taken to suggesting that dd is polite and friendly to her but there's not much else she can do. Anyway, I got a phone call from dd this morning from the bus in floods of tears - the mum had come to the bus stop and accused her of being a bully, of ring leading the others and generally being awful to this girl. Shortly later the mother rang me. I was incredibly angry that she should have done this and said so in no uncertain terms - but she then had to go to work and I had to go to my other school run so I said I would ring her this evening.

Help - what do I do or say?

I've rung a couple of other bus mothers and they say that their girls tell the same storyt hat my dd does - they try to be friendly but it's not reciprocated.

When you speak to the mother I would make sure you tell her about the 'blanking' etc, so that she knows you have seen it and it isn't just on your DDs word.

I'd also tell the mother that as a result of her verbally abusing your DD you spoke to some other mothers all of whom agreed that the problem is more with her DD than yours.

I would be FURIOUS that she had spoken to my DD in this way. Does your DD have to take the bus - could she avoid this girl for a while by travelling another way?

I would also be tempted to speak to the school - is the other girl like this at school - if she is it might help for the mother to hear this.

Very for your DD

Ah, tricky.

The other mother needs a reality check. Firstly, it's really Not Okay to challenge somebody else's child over something that they may or may not have done to your child -- apart from anything else, and however badly you think the child has behaved it puts her as the adult in the position of being accused of bullying. So I think you should make it very clear to her that you are extremely unhappy that she has approached your dd in those terms.

Secondly, if they're secondary age then they should be old enough to sort most things out between themselves, assuming that there's no suggestion of actual bullying or threatening. There's not v. much kudos in having your mum come and fight your battles for you. If dd was in this other girl's position I'd be trying to talk her through ways that she could behave in order to help make the situation easier, but remind her that in the end you can't force people to be friends with you if they don't want to and suggest that she take in a book or magazine to read on the bus to distract her. Whereas this mum seems to be blaming other dc for her own daughter's lack of social skills.

Oh how awful for your DD.She seems to have been trying really hard to include this girl but it seems to me that this girl is jealous of your dd's popularity and is trying to make trouble for her. It seems strange that the mother approached you first last time but has gone straight to your dd this time.

I too would tell the mum that you have spoken to other mums and that the problem lies with her dd not yours.

Is it possible for you to have a word with the bus driver and see if he has noticed any problems on the bus?

what a cow (the other mother). No doubt the daughter learnt her social skills at that woman's knee...

I had a 'friend' at secondary school who was like this - any perceived slight was reported to her mother, who would then ring round our mothers and complain that we were bullying her. Luckily her mother never resorted to shouting directly at us - just wouldn't let us in the house when 'friend' occasionally invited us over. 'Friend' is now apparently married and no longer in contact with anyone from school, after being asked to be a bridesmaid for a mutual pal and then pulling out at the last minute (due to another perceived slight).

My mother punished me a couple of times for apparently bullying this girl, then realised what the situation was, and advised me to be civil, but not much more - it kind of worked, but there is still a lot of ill feeling in the old group I hung around in towards this girl. Sadly, there are loonies everywhere.

(Oh, and we're all 27/28 years old now, you'd think we'd have forgotten about it by now!)

Gosh, Seeker. Sorry this is still dragging on for you and your DD. I think whatever you say to the other mother won't ultimately make any difference. This is absolutely about her and her insecurities, and she is using your daughter as the peg to hang them all on I'm afraid. I think you have to remember that when you speak to her.

I would refer the mother back to the conversation you had earlier this year. You can say your DD has tried to make an effort but she feels it is not reciprocated. Say your DD is confused by this, but perhaps it would be better if the girls just gave each other a wide berth. You are sorry her DD will have to sit on the bus away from your DD, but it is only a bus ride and she will have a better day when she gets to school and joins up with all her real friends. (And I suspect this is part of the problem. Does she have any friends at her school? If not that is not your DD's problem anyway).

I would let her know her actions this morning were threatening and inappropriate and you are sure she realizes it did nothing to help the situation. Don't go in all guns blazing though - you don't want to give her anything to kick back at. Keep it calm and civil (I am sure you will!)

Her DD sounds quite needy and insecure. Her mother is validating her insecurity by fighting her imaginary battles for her. (Don't tell her that btw!)

You need to tell your DD that this is absolutely not about her and that the other mother was wrong to do what she did. She should be polite and pleasant to this girl, but ultimately keep her distance.

(And then when the phone call is over you can pour yourself a large glass of something nice and start sticking pins in that vodoo doll!)

One thought - can you arrange for you and your daughter to meet the other mum and her daughter at a neutral venue (coffee shop etc)? People are generally much less willing to be rude and confrontational face to face rather than over the phone. Agree with all the advice about staying calm - I would ask her what her solution is, and make sorting this out her problem not yours, with the focus on how her dd can change her bevaiour, not just your dd having to change hers). This may also give your dd a chance to say she is already doing those things, or why the suggestions are not practical if that is the case.

Afraid I disagree, southern, this woman has already been abusive in public. And I don't think it would be good for seeker's dd to be exposed to another attack, as seems likely.

Seeker - think in your shoes I'd contact the other girl's school and the bus company. Wouldn't have suggested the school originally, but given the mother's behaviour I think it's now the right thing to do. Just explain what happened this morning, point out the mother is now wading in, and the drivers should be aware.

And tell the other woman what she did was outrageous! Your dd has tried to be polite but you have seen her daughter blank your dd herself. It is appalling that a grown woman is trying to bully your dd.

Christ Seeker that other mother has been completely inappropriate.

I just read through the thread - didn;t see it at the time. I thought you dealt with everything extremely well. I also rememebr a thread ages back when your dd just started senior school, it was about a load of friendship problems. Both you and your dd came across as very empathetic and dealt with the issues really well.

Second some posts above that you call the girl's mother and say you have spoken to other mothers on the bus and all concur with your dd. I would be livid if a mother accused my 13 year old dd of something like that, how dare she go and confront a teenager as if she is a fully grown woman. What 13 year old wouldn't be upset by that? It sounds as if this woman has got it everything completely out of proportion.

had you spoken to the other mum and told her what you had heard from your dd about the bus situation seeker or had you not got round to that yet?

I think after this most recent run-in with the mum speaking to your dd like that, I personally would no longer be prepared to meet her and her dd. At least that is if she accused your dd of bullying AFTER you explained to her what you have told us here.

If she did not know that and just thought her dd was unhappy, being bullied and you were not doing anything about it, possibly I understand her better.

I would not bother to arrange a meeting in a neutral place to be honest. This woman couldn't be civil to a 13 year old girl, I don't think reasonable approaches are worth bothering with.

I'd spell it out, nicely, Seeker.

Tell her that your understanding is that her daughter is the only one going to that school on the bus. That you have the impression she is shy and socially not very confident.

That must be difficult for her - and you know that often leads to children feeling slights and feeling left out, when really they haven't been.

Sometimes they need to blame other people for their own shortcomings. There's a big difference between picking on someone, and someone not being as involved as they'd like to be.

You are sure that they all like her and they certainly don't dislike her, but the mother can't force her child to be the centre of attention, and nobody can force other children to make her so.

However, it's not fair to blame your dd for her daughter's insecurities. And that you do understand, and you have asked your dd to try and include her in conversations, but also perhaps it would be helpful if her dd worked on finding other friends too and that might help her feel more confident and less put out.

I bet her dd is having a tough change of school, and her mother feels helpless and cross about the whole business. As mothers do.

Then wait for the AIBU: Mother of bully says it's MY DD'S fault because she's shy!

Is there any possibility that the other girl IS being bullied at school and that this is all her rather clumsy and inept attempt to communicate that to her mother. that you and your DD seem to be bearing the brunt of it.

I remember this thread from back in Feb seeker, it sounds like you and your DD have been really thoughtful and done your best here.

Her telling off your DD at the bus stop is terrible! She should be ashamed of herself, an adult telling off a girl on her own at the bus stop like that.

I would call her later and state that you will not accept her doing what she did this morning, and that although your dd and her friends have tried to be civil, her DD is not reciprocating and has even blanked your DD.

I can't understand this girls viewpoint TBH, I used to have to bus across town to school with kids going to different places, and wouldn't have expected a close nit group of girls from another school to put me in the middle of their circle/conversation. It wouldn't have occurred to me, let alone bothered me enough to go crying to my mum. I also think the other mum is being abit precious. You can't tell kids of this age to be best friends, as long as they aren't nastily excluding her she should let them all be.

Oh, I really wouldn't try and meet the other mum again. Really you would just be feeding her insecurities and validating her behaviour. Be polite on the phone, but be firm. You can use language like 'I am sorry you see it that way'.

I really wouldn't bring the other parents you spoke to, in either. She will feel ganged up on and that will only justify her position.

You CAN let her know that if she speaks to your daughter again without you there, or without your permission, you will have no option but to mention to your daughter's school that she is being approached on the bus by another adult. Leave it at that.

The time to step it up is if this mum goes to your daughter's school and starts to stir things up. Then you can draft in witnesses, cite her unreasonable behaviour and generally let rip!

Thank you all. I was absolutely furious this morning - I was outraged that she would approach my dd like this. What a way for the poor child to start the day! I've calmed down a bit now, and I'm thinking that I might just remind dd that it's only two weeks to the end of term and things will calm down over the summer. I am tempted to go round to their house tonight and confront them - but I'd better not.

The mother behaved like a bully!

Will you not call her Seeker? I would

Yes, would call the mother. She feels very happy to call you about a non-event, I think it is approproate that you call her now she has shrieked at your daughter.

Very very tricky siruation .Obviously the mother is going to believe what her child teels her as being gospel and you will naturally believe your child.
Drawing on my own experience .I have a 7 year old who was so badly bullied that she would not speak to any of the 'bullies' who were the other 5 girls in her year group eventually and eventually wouldn't speak to anyone at all at school.So I am sorry to say that this girls behaviour is IME consistent with being bullied
I know the other mother's behaviour seems inappropriate but its a bit difficult for her when the alleged bullies are at a different school.

Good advice above!

Could you suggest that the other girl took a different route into school if she doesn't want to run into your DD and her group of friends?

katiestar -I've tried all the way through to make it clear that I don't automatically believe my child. I am on her side absolutely, but in circumstances like this I wouldn't believe her blindly without evidence. I do feel that the evidence is stacking in favour of my dd telling the truth, but I always keep in mind the fact that she might be all that the other mother says she is.

The mother is behaving APPALLINGLY, seeker. I'm not surprised you were v angry with her. She's doing her own daughter no favours at all, either.

Your poor daughter. I hope you have a lovely evening together to make up for it and can talk round the problem and feel better. I think you could do a lot worse than letting it lie and hoping it all calms down over the summer but I also totally sympathise with wanting to go round and confront the bananaheaded fool with her completely out of order actions.