I feel we chose the wrong school - yr7

[SENmummessedup]

Sorry if this is long...

My DS is 11 and started secondary school earlier this month. He is autistic but high functioning and has slow processing - very intelligent though. Very active and loves sports.

His private primary school very much encouraged us to apply to his current school, we looked at other, bigger, more competitive schools but because of his diagnosis he didn't get a place (one school told us not to bother applying, another we applied and he passed the exam but failed the interview).

it is a small mainstream private school.

So far his new school has been just ok. It's really not what we wanted for our son. It isn't close to our house so he has over an hour on a coach to get there (he leaves at 7am, home at 5.30-6 depending on traffic and 7pm on a club night). The sport facilities are shoddy, clubs are always cancelled or changed (my son signed up for football but they changed it to basketball which he doesn't like). Some of his teachers are off sick so subjects are being covered - eg geography being covered by a history teacher. He is bored as the academic level is not high. He has an academic scholarship and they made much of how he would be pushed but I have seen no sign of that yet.

The big selling point was pastoral care. We got a new EP report at the beginning of year 6 to support the transition to secondary school. We shared the report with all the schools we applied for - it suggested a buddy from an older year for the first few weeks. The school said they did that for all new pupils- it hasn't happened.

I called the SENCo the first week and she suggested my husband and I come in to discuss - still waiting for that appointment to be made.

My son has not settled. There are a lot of SEN needs there, which is fine but it doesn't automatically mean all the autistic kids are the same. He knows one other child there and I can see why my son struggles with him- he had a day off sick last week just because he couldn't face another day with this kid.

My son is desperate just to be treated as a "normal" kid. He really wanted to go to one of the schools that his friends from primary went to but because of his diagnosis he was rejected.

Anyway, they had their open day this weekend and my son had to go in to help with that. As it is a long way to drive I stayed for the open day. It was deeply mediocre. My eyes have been opened to the fact that what they say is not what actually happens. It is all lip service.

Not even sure what we can do at this point. I always knew it wouldn't necessarily be plain sailing but this is pretty dire. I know it has only been a few weeks and I appreciate we need to give it more time but I also feel we need a plan. I am really trying not to be pushy with the school.

His name is down at our preferred local state school and at last count he was 14th on the list. I don't trust that this would be right for him either and we really don't have any other options.

I guess it is normal to feel this way? I feel we have massively failed my son.

I would be cautious of moving just for a school
as a lot of private schools are in a precarious financial situation and many of these have historically been accepting of SEN. A school can also change culture with a new head, I have seen it with Stoke College for example who have been historically great but turned selective in the couple of years before it closed. At the very least if you do take the plunge and move ensure there are acceptable alternatives state and private should the worse happen. Again an EHCP will be helpful in this situation.

Emanuel school, big school grounds of 12 acres and sports, arts, drama etc.
City of London is great but no green space and DC will need to travel to sport grounds.
Harrodian, green space.

Check Londonpreprep.com, there is a list of London school and rankings.
Goodschoolguides.co.uk

Start reaching out now because there may be exams to sit this term to move, occasional places due to family relocation.

Would you consider weekly boarding?
My friend's son is at Lancing College and they are thriving - they have a specified SEN department and great sports and it's mildly selective.

If you're thinking of moving, APS or Dame Alice Owen or maybe Wren Academy Finchley are the schools I would try to move on the doorstep of. I wouldn't move for a private school.

My friend’s DS (high functioning autistic) is at London Park Clapham following a terrible year 7 at a different school. He is absolutely thriving and on set for some pretty stellar GCSE’s. If the distance is workable, I’d definitely give them a call.

If you looked at schools that have a prep and an upper school there’s a natural transition point at year 9 when they start upper school so there’s lots of new joiners then.

If you’re open to moving then aiming for year 9 entry somewhere else would give you time to find the right school, get a place, find a house etc.

Although that does mean staying where he is for now!

I think a lot of autistic children like a smaller more flexible environment which a lot of private schools are good at. Quite a few of them offer hybrid learning, later start times, more flexibility about uniform, quieter lunch options etc. it isn't just about the grades.

Also it is hard to measure 'doing better'. I don't know which studies you are talking about but if the measure is based on value added then very high ability students always do worse because of the way the data works. If someone is predicted all 9s and they achieve all 9s then the value added score is 0. State schools also vary enormously and it is luck of the draw, or ability to afford a house in the right area, that determines which one your child goes to.

Doesn't sound like the school your son is at is suitable and will potentially get worse over time.
As it is so near the beginning of term, I would be looking round at alternatives. If your son is bored and not being supported academically, I can only imagine things getting worse.
FWIW, it's worth checking with the school you would like your son to go to if/when their waiting list is 'cleared'. The state school we hoped our DD would go to does this in November, so we'd have to reapply to go on the waiting list after that.
We decided in the end to send our DD to a private school, rather than see if she got into our preferred state school. Overall, it's been absolutely the right decision. We've also moved her very bright sibling to the same school as they were struggling in their state primary through utter boredom. Their behaviour has improved enormously due to the school change.
Go with your gut instinct and look for a more suitable school for your son.

@SENmummessedup I'm sorry you're going through this.

Today I felt very similar to you - that I had failed my child. To be honest, I think this is a normal view...it's really hard to know what's right, it's hard to know the right way to fight and the right way to phrase things. People are right when they say that all you can do is what you feel is best at the time, with the information and resources you have...but that doesn't cut it when you know your best wasn't good enough.

This isn't the right school. You know it. Your child knows it. Better to move sooner rather than later, but I would engage specialist advice to help find the right place.

I spoke to a specialist education solicitor about the upcoming EHCP review and he highlighted several times how much support my son SHOULD have been getting. I think something ridiculous like over 98% of cases that go to tribunal are won (against the LA).

Spend £1000 on 3hrs of really quality advice. It's worth it.

One of the reasons for switching to Comprehensives from the old Grammar Secondary Mod system was precisely because Grammar schools did so poorly for many of their students. It was notorious that the C stream eg was treated as abject failures. I remember how disparaging teachers often were towards them. ( Even though they were apparently still in the top 20% of 'intelligence'.) The effect on those children who failed the 11+ was even more devastating, undermining their confidence etc for years if not for ever.

Worse of course was the discrimination against girls who scored higher than boys at the 11+ but were doomed (in a system that had separate girls' and boys' schools) to go to Secondary Mods where they often had little opportunity to study the same subjects as boys and usually had to leave at 15 and couldn't therefore take the GCEs. The problems of getting (highly) qualified teachers for girls' schools was compounded by the fact that women teachers had to retire on marriage until 1944 when the ban was lifted. And, of course, equal pay for women teachers wasn't fully implemented until 1961. The National Association of School Masters (NAS) was a breakaway group campaigning against equal pay for women. It became the NAS UWT when discrimination against organisations that banned women became illegal.

Of course the research into Burt's whole idea of inbuilt intelligence that could be tested for at 11 was proved by Professor Brian Simon to be based on falsified 'research'. Burt even went to the trouble of writing columns in praise his work under pseudonyms etc.

The whole system of Grammar schools has been and is based on very damaging and false research.

Please don't beat yourself up, you've done absolutely loads for him, way more than so many parents. He clearly understands himself and how he works best, you've sorted an Ep and a good primary, you've pushed for more academic schools (it is absolutely not your fault that they can't see the strengths your son brings to their school). You've then picked a school you felt would be best for valid reasons - it is not your fault that they've not delivered.
Our sons sound very similar, finding somewhere academically stretching and stimulating, but that also supports kids with additional needs is really really hard. They're either really lacking academics and full of children with challenging behaviour, and therefore "good for send" or they're ambitious and aggressive and don't take the time to support the kids who need a little help but who otherwise achieve.
You have a good view as to what you want which is great, and you're pushing the existing school which is great. I'd set a timeline, it always takes a while to settle, especially for autistic children, so give it a while and work with the school in case things improve. Meanwhile, have a look at schools you previously discounted due to tube or train travel, or based on hearsay, explore the state option in more detail and come up with a good plan b and c. That way if year 7 comes to an end with no improvement, or a place at the state school comes up, you're ready. Personally I'd be wary of state schools but that's very much a personal view, they just simply didn't have the right environment for my son due to the big class sizes and teacher to student ratio - it made everything too noisy and unsupportive regardless how good the other parts were. He is sensitive to noise particularly though, so may be different for your son - arrange a tour during the school day to see the realities, don't go to open days, they're always sales pitches.

If you are nr Surrey then give me a shout. I was in a very similar situation w my son.

I agree it shows the value of grammar schools on getting the grades. But from my experience teaching at a uni, those who’ve been pushed beyond their natural limit crack in terms of mental health and are just utterly exhausted. They don’t know what they want other than the need to ‘achieve’ the marks.

I think you’re doing the right thing here. You chose a school that felt right, and you’re reassessing now you know more about it. Not all parents would have that humility to accept they might have chosen wrong and that’s worth recognising as a strength.

I do agree that it takes time for children to settle in to a new school but that’s not really your issue here.

The red flags you’ve noticed since starting - the swimming gala debacle, the lying and lip service, the high staff turnover, the dispirited year 11’s - these all stem from poor leadership and have nothing to do with your son settling or not.
I would consider 2 things:-

1. Is there a chance your prep school pushed this secondary because they knew your son had a high chance of getting an academic scholarship there (which looks good for them)
2. Have you checked the school’s financial on hmrc- that could give you a lot more insight
3. You might be really irritating the local council by phoning every week- you just have to be patient and contacting them that much is more likely to get you put down the list than up!

Liberty woodland school, while it doesn’t have sports, is a beautiful place and would be a lovely setting for the rest of year 7 until your son gets somewhere else.

It's so difficult and it doesn't sound like your fault at all, you've tried your best to find him the right place and it sounds like your options are limited. Could you / would you consider home education? My autistic children are thriving now they are home educated and I wish I had considered it earlier as an option for my older son. He left school two weeks into year 7 when it became clear that the best state school I could find for him was not able to support his needs and he was just going to be miserable.

My son is also bright and autistic and he's just started at a state grammar. I've been really impresssed at the support he's had from the SENCO, she's checked in with me twice already, he had an extra transition day and an extra getting to know you day, she's asked all his teachers to flag when he's struggling so she can build up a support plan etc. I think high functioning and happy kids can get a bit lost at a school with lots of SEN - this is one reason why I pushed for the grammar because I didn't want him to be at a school where the SENCO was overwhelmed with lots of kids in crisis.
How close are you to Kent? Would an occasional place at a state grammar be an option? Kent grammars are much less competitive than the London grammars, which would probably suit a child with slow processing better.

Waste of your money to stay longer when they clearly misled you. Find him another better private school

Load of rubbish. Your history is correct but don't slag off grammar schools you don't know. Lots of kids do really well there and while it doesn't suit everyone they fill an important part of parent choices particularly if they can't afford private but have a kid that wants to be stretched.

Its not all about results! People choose school being the best fit for their child not to suit some leftist agenda.
There's nothing wrong with choosing private and it doesn't sound like results are op's main concern. School needs to be a good fit for the individual and if that means paying or grammar then that's all good.
My boy is at grammar, his choice, he loves it and I really don't give a shit what people think about that as long as he's happy and doing well.

Setting history and social impact aside, I do think the existence of grammar schools is a natural practice with its own rationale, independent of any flawed historical research you mentioned. Selectivity is the core issue. Whether or not it benefits every individual or society as a whole, high academic selectivity is strongly demanded by parents of academically able children. Given that private schools routinely use 11+ or 13+ selection (which has little to do with the history you brought up), the state system should offer a similar option. I view grammar schools as the state counterpart to selective independent schools (in London, for instance, Henrietta Barnett, QE Boys, or Tiffin serve as the state counterpart to St Paul’s, NLCS, or Westminster) After all, selection by examination remains standard practice in education systems worldwide, with perhaps only a few Nordic countries being the exception.

That's a really interesting take.

My experience of grammar school was - here's the lesson and it's on you to follow it. Zero support when struggling (just told "try harder" when asked how to improve).

Moved to a state comprehensive for sixth form and the support levels were insane - for example, my Maths teacher would have me in his office every day (my choice) getting up to speed (I had ground to cover from parts of the curriculum my grammar school Maths teacher hadn't taught us and left us to teach ourselves, plus I hasn't done any Maths for over a year so needed a bit of a refresher). I'd sit and work through exercises and past papers while he did planning / marking, so I could keep asking questions. Absolutely zero chance of that at my grammar school. There was definitely no "extra coaching" - it was very much "one size fits all".

Interestingly, my A Level predictions at my grammar school were DDD but at my state comprehensive they went up to AAB.

The effort that went (and goes into) students at state comprehensives, in my experience, is well beyond what grammar schools will do. You get a broader curriculum in grammar schools because there's less need to differentiate lessons or deal with behavioural / social issues in quite the same way as most state comprehensives, but that's it. So much more is on the students to access what's there, rather than the school doing its utmost to help.

My husband is a teacher and the difference in the effort he puts in and the opportunities available to his students for them to access support is wild compared to what was available at my grammar school.

It was also far more competitive at my grammar school than at my state comprehensive - everyone was crazily intelligent at the grammar school so you could be exceptionally academic but not an exceptional student. A lot of people find that hard. Opportunities to represent your form / house / school were also harder to access because everyone was competing for those positions, rather than just the driven few.

There is also the difference in exam boards which seems to go largely unmentioned. Grammar schools tend to choose the "harder" exam boards (something about Oxbridge and medicine caring), whilst state comprehensives go for the easier ones. At my grammar school, we sat AQA Maths - after the exam, we got hold of the Edexcel paper and the difference was insane. I only got an A on AQA but would have scored almost (if not) full makes on the Edexcel paper (A). Had a similar experience with Russian. Sat (I think it was) OCR Russian GCSE - got a B 😭 (Absolutely gutted - I loved Russian!). A year later, with no extra lessons and very little revision, I re-sat Russian GCSE but this time through Edexcel - came out with an A.

When (some of us) moaned about being taught things way beyond the curriculum (we just wanted to focus on what we needed for the exams) we were constantly told how the school repeatedly had feedback from the universities that our school's students were way ahead in their first year of studies.

Maybe there has been a shift since I was at school but the idea grammar school students just sail through goes completely against my experience (and, seemingly, that of many others who have either been or had children go).

It is so refreshing to hear of the support your child with SEND is receiving in a grammar school - mine had a part-time SENDCo whose office (no joke) was the cupboard under the stage and pastoral care didn't exist!

All the very best of wishes to him.

Do you find that Grammar school kids struggle more in this way than kids from private or public school at Uni? Just curious anecdotally as I'm guessing both would be pushed to get good marks and private/public school perhaps receive greater attention due to smaller class sizes. I know Bristol give contextual offers to students from aspiring schools as they tend to outperform the cohort and the list includes quite a few grammars.

(Op, sorry to derail thread, just curious on this point)

Thanks for sharing your story, it really offers a great perspective. A few quick thoughts on what you said:

1. Moving from a grammar school to a comprehensive for Sixth Form gives a student that classic 'Big Fish in a Small Pond' advantage. A high-achieving kid in a comp naturally becomes a priority for teachers, getting the kind of tailored support that would be diluted in a grammar school surrounded by straight-A students.
2. I read research that actually shows that grammar schools add the most value at GCSE rather than A-Levels or university admissions. Looking at your experience, my takeaway is that the ideal path might be passing the 11+ and spending Years 7 to 11 at a grammar school. That way, a child gets the benefit of a focused academic environment and strong peers during their formative years. After that, they could switch to a comprehensive for Sixth Form to be the 'big fish' and get targeted help (plus potential contextual university offers), or move to a private school for small class sizes and bespoke tuition for uni applications and exams.
3. I completely get the sink-or-swim nature of grammar schools. I went to a top selective school in Asia where teachers rarely micromanaged us. Most of what I learned came from competing with brilliant classmates, some were natural geniuses while others were remarkably well-rounded, and that pushed me to raise my own game. That peer effect is why I like selective schools, though I know it only works for kids who handle pressure well. At a recent class reunion, some of my old schoolmates who sat near the bottom of our cohort remembered school very differently. Their memories were far less positive, pretty much like what you described. So it really depends on whether the school suits the child.

State grammar schools definitely have their place in the world. They are not for everyone and parents who push their children from early on, with tonnes of tutoring, just so they can squeeze through the entrance exams perhaps don't do their children any favours. The environment is, after all, a tough one.

I know enough who were in that boat. That said, due to the pushiness of their parents, and the prep-school education beforehand, they were resilient buggers and definitely made the most of their grammar school education.

There were also students who'd suffered years of bullying at their primary schools for being "nerdy" (and knew that the same, if not worse, fate awaited them at their local comprehensive) so grammar school was a life-saver for them (one of the girls in my form joked she'd probably have been murdered before reaching Year 8 had she not go into the grammar school!).

Largely, though, grammar schools are great for those academically-minded, high-achieving, self-motivated individuals whose parents can't afford private education. Some will argue that state comprehensives should be brought up to the same standard as grammar schools but it's just not possible when they have a year group stretched from non-attenders, those with extreme learning difficulties, completely average students and those who are very gifted academically. They don't have the resources to meet all of those needs, on a daily basis.

It's the same argument for having more schools only for SEND students (not that all SEND students need to be in specialist schools). With a limited demographic, those schools can cater for specifically to the needs of their students.