Yearly warning about taking A-level maths with a 6 at GCSE

[noblegiraffe]

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day.

So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a strong correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder.

There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table I've posted), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications.

If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade.

If your child is considering maths with a grade 7 but will be applying for extremely competitive uni courses, consider whether they actually need it as A*s and As from a 7 are not likely. Obviously, anything is possible, check how far they were off an 8, ask their teacher for advice, but please don't assume that an (old) A at GCSE translates to an A at A-level.

This data is from 2019, there's more recent data but not in as clear a format, and the message is basically the same.

If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths instead, which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography).

If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

If they haven't been set any bridging work - don't assume that's ok! There are some resources here to help https://alevelmathsrevision.com/bridging-the-gap/

Thank you, im so proud he persevered. Off the back of it hes been awarded an engineering degree apprenticeship where he advocated for himself about pursuing your goals. It really frustrates me when children are written off so easily, thankfully he was grown up enough to work his way around it.

The results that gave me the most pleasure were my 2 worst subjects, English Lang/English Litt. The English teacher told my Dad he expected me to fail both. In the run-up to the exams, I fell asleep every night reading the prologue to the Canterbury tales. I passed them both and he apologised to me.

Now you're kind of supporting my point here about there being a problem with the system. If we are telling young people that they can progress on to maths A level with a 6 (which many schools do) - why are teachers (usually the maths teachers) saying no you can't? Why is your school not listening to you and changing the entry requirements - does the exam board say that a grade 7 and above is necessary? If not, why?

Again this bring us back to my earlier point that 30 years ago you could have accessed A level maths with a B grade and I don't know anyone who would have said you couldn't do it...If an A grade is need to do the A level now something has gone wrong in my opinion.

We seem to be going round in circles and I respect that this thread was all started with the best intentions but as I said it's so sad that the system is now like this. I will now bow out now, good night all.

Every day is a schoolday huh :)

I did O levels but all my grades were letters. This was in 1980 so I assume you took yours in the 1970s? I never knew O levels were ever numbers. CSEs existed too and the top grade there was a 1 (= a C at O level).

Politics, Law, Business studies, Philosophy, Sociology all would be excellent depends on interests and what is offered by school or college.

The population is so much smaller for those with a 5 too, it skews much easier. 2 star performers move the 5 stars by almost 1%, but have a 0.1% minimal impact on those with a 6.

Isn't the truth that you can either do Maths or you can't. I memorised chunks of Chaucer and Caesars De Bello Gallico to get English Litt and Latin. Learnt to describe my bedroom in my French to get through the oral part of French O level, but you can't bluff maths.

I do personally believe that people can make a difference with hard work so it is down to the individual. However my dd school only allowed a 7 for entry to maths A level and actually she was predicted an A at one point but during the 2 year course she suffered with an unexpected illness and ended up with a B at A-level.

Even 30 years ago, you'd have accessed A level maths with a B, but the odds are you'd get a C or below, just like students with a 6 now.

You'd probably do ok at Economics if it interested you. People think the A-level has "maths" in but it's numeracy, and fairly simple numeracy at that. While you couldn't really go on to really competitive single honours Economics courses without the Maths A-level, you'd still have lots of good university options and some Economics degrees these days have got a "without Maths A-level" track anyway.

I’m reading all of this with interest. I got 4As and 6Bs at GCSE, then 3 As at A-level (pre A ⭐ s). 2 of my A levels were in subjects I got Bs in at GCSE. This was 20 years ago, has course content and structure changed that much since then?

The same for science. You will see that many do science A levels only knowing 50% of the curriculum and they aren't being warned off if they want to do it with a 6....that's why it sucks...and science is cumulative and builds on previous knowledge in a similar way. Anyway I said I was bowing out - now I really am. Good night all.

Swot or what

I remember back when I did A level maths they wouldn't let you if you hadnt got an A at GCSE - saying the gap between GCSE and A level was fa higher than A level and degree

Students are warned off Science with 6 or lower ime. Where are you that they aren't?!

Dd got an 8 in maths and 6 in FM gcse (with little work for maths) and is flying at A Level with both. Obviously not shoddy but now on track for both A stars due to an amazing teacher.

Not in my school or the other local schools or colleges in my area... don't know where you work private? Grammar?

100% agree with the OP, my eldest DC achieved a 7 at GCSE maths, and a D at Maths A Level. We learnt the hard way! A level maths is a different beast.

If we are telling young people that they can progress on to maths A level with a 6 (which many schools do) - why are teachers (usually the maths teachers) saying no you can't? Why is your school not listening to you and changing the entry requirements - does the exam board say that a grade 7 and above is necessary? If not, why?

I know you are bowing out @jobnotsure but just on this; teachers are advising students of the reality of A level maths for most with a 6 at GCSE.

My school is no longer my school as I said; but when I was there we learned that even a very keen student should not take A level with a C.

The exam boards don't specify and rightly so IMO; there may be circs (as I have said) where an individual will do better than their GCSE grade suggests, and a teacher knows this. Also for some it may be fine to do a challenging course and know that they will most likely get D or below. But I think they need to know this upfront – as then they may change their minds.

100 per cent agree. Year one of A level and I think still is so much of a jump up from O level/GCSE

I got 7 As and 2 Bs in the late 80s - then only ACC at A level (part of one of the courses that we’d spent a term on wasn’t actually on the syllabus I subsequently found out!)

Bog standard state school. Science is worded as "grade 6 or above is essential, grade 7 or above is desirable".

I've googled a few local sixth forms and they're all similar, saying a 6 is the minimum for maths and sciences, but that a 7 is better. The nearest grammar you have to have an 8 for maths and sciences.

Thank you for this. No longer holding any relevance to me but I still like to see it!

Why aren't the school listening to their maths teachers and changing the entry requirements? Excellent question, this has been a massive battle going on for many years.

And the answer is 'bums on seats'. We get funding for each pupil at sixth form and we are massively in competition with a local college. If we require a 7 for maths, they might go elsewhere. If we accept them with a 6, then it's up to the maths dept (not the people who set entry requirements) to bust a gut to try to get them a grade, putting on unpaid intervention sessions, and to have the difficult conversations with parents when it all goes to shit. "Other subjects can deal with students with a 6 so why not maths?" - The table in the OP shows that it's not a problem specific to my maths dept, however.

And if they decide to come to our sixth form with a 6 and flunk out really quickly, they will probably stay at the sixth form and switch to another subject so we still get their money.

We, as a department are not allowed to tell them the likelihood of them failing if they start on a 6 (so it's definitely not them fulfilling our prophecy), so I post about it on MN instead.

One thing you are ignoring about 'a B being sufficient 30 years ago' is the massive grade inflation that took place in GCSEs in the late 90s early 2000s. When we say that a 6 is equivalent to an old B, we mean a 2016 B. A 2016 B is not equivalent to a 2005 B. And it is definitely not a 1996 B.

My DS got a grade 7 in his GCSE maths. He took his maths A-Level and he really struggled. We ended up getting him a private tutor. He did manage to get a grade C in his A Level. He said the jump from GCSE to A Level was massive. My work colleague who has a degree in Maths said he found the jump from maths GSCE to A level seemed a lot harder then A level to degree!!