Yearly warning about taking A-level maths with a 6 at GCSE

[noblegiraffe]

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day.

So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a strong correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder.

There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table I've posted), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications.

If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade.

If your child is considering maths with a grade 7 but will be applying for extremely competitive uni courses, consider whether they actually need it as A*s and As from a 7 are not likely. Obviously, anything is possible, check how far they were off an 8, ask their teacher for advice, but please don't assume that an (old) A at GCSE translates to an A at A-level.

This data is from 2019, there's more recent data but not in as clear a format, and the message is basically the same.

If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths instead, which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography).

If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

If they haven't been set any bridging work - don't assume that's ok! There are some resources here to help https://alevelmathsrevision.com/bridging-the-gap/

I agree, and saw this post last year. I showed it to my DS, who got a 7 but was determined to do maths. He thinks he can buck the trend, we will see! Although we aren't targeting top flight unis which need A or A star but those around the B grade, but still means working for it.
Of the three A levels he is always doing maths, even over the summer he has a booklet of maths for each week alongside catching up on some weaker areas. Compared to this he does some physics work and practically no geography. The teaching is also gruelling, expectation is high, those who did not pass a test at the end of term 1 were moved to other a level subjects. They are expected to study in advance of a topic and are constantly tested.
So my view is your DC need to understand maths is no joke and requires a lot of time input.

It's a minimum of grade 7 to do A level maths at ds's school. Even then, some of his class mates struggled.
I think if you had to work really hard to achieve a 7 at gcse, A level maths is not the best choice. Doing it with a 6 would be crazy.

My dd got an a from gcse grade 6, she wasn’t alone at her sixth form either. Remember GCSE grades are impacted by poor teaching, teacher absences etc not just student ability

I'd generally ignore further maths grades as they are taught in such varied ways. If he got a 7 in maths, then he can certainly consider A-level, but with the caveat that he will need to work hard! Some students think that it's like GCSE where they just need to do the work in lessons and a bit of homework at home and then he'll be fine. It's not like that at all, he will need to do a significant amount of practice at home on top of homework, and if he doesn't understand something, he needs to do something about it himself. We tell them that they should be doing an hour of maths outside of lessons for each lesson that they have. That's what the free periods are for!

He should also be doing lots of bridging work (see link in OP) if he hasn't already done to make sure he hits the ground running in September.

At my school, and I assume most other schools, we make them sit an assessment three or so weeks into the course. If they completely bomb the assessment (which some do) we then strongly advise that they switch to a different A-level.

At the bottom of the grade boundaries document from the Emporium for 2025 there is the equivalent for 2023 - 2025, but I can't open it on my phone @noblegiraffe

DS’s school asks for an 8 in GCSE maths for this reason. They found the children who had a 7 struggled more. Selective state. DS got a 9. Very proud!

Appreciate this is well meaning but it's so depressing. What a sorry state education is in that young people with a 6 (B) in maths should be discourage from doing maths A level...

Oh that's interesting, never seen it before!

The A* rates for grade 5 and 6 on this one are 0% which is much more expected!

I understand what you mean about a 6 which of course is a good grade. And it's enough for lots of A levels which are more topic based.

But for linear subjects like maths (and indeed my subject, MFL) there is an expectation at the start of the A level course that you will know certain things that you will build on. @noblegiraffe has noted what those are for maths; for German (for example) you would need to have good grasp of irregular verbs and tenses, basic common vocab and use of prepositions and cases. That won't be covered again. If you do have that, you will pretty much gain a grade 7.

This year a 6 in AQA German was 64%; in AQA maths it was 54%. Does that really suggest the mastery needed for advanced level? I don't think it shows that education is in a sorry state at all.

When I took A levels in the 1980s, a B at O level was advised; but there was only one grade above that. Now there are three.

Totally agree with @noblegiraffe My DC got a hard earned 9 at GCSE. The A-Level was horrendous, they totally struggled and it distracted away from their other A-Levels.

I don't doubt a word of what you're saying, but this just demonstrates in my view part of what is wrong with the education system, and GCSEs and A levels in particular. I do not remember this being an issue 30 years ago. Someone could quite happily go with a GCSE grade B in maths and do the A level without being made to feel that it was a bad idea etc...I actually think there is clearly a problem with the maths A level if pupils with B grades at GCSE can not attain the top grades. This is not the case in many other A levels and for what it's worth I teach A levels too but obviously not maths ....so understand the system.

@jobnotsure I actually think there is clearly a problem with the maths A level if pupils with B grades at GCSE can not attain the top grades.

That's not a problem with maths A-level though, that's just how maths is as a subject, it builds and you cannot master the next bits if you don't have a good understanding of the previous bits. It's not like History where you might have screwed up the WWII topic but it doesn't matter because you're now onto the China topic. If you don't understand solving linear equations or solving quadratics, then you are screwed before you even start quadratic simultaneous equations.

I understand the concern but for balance, my dd just achieved an A (nearly A star) in maths a level from a 7 (near the 6 boundary) at gcse.

She just turned 18, one of the youngest in her year and went to a state school, non selective.

Off to study engineering at university.

Mine got a 7 at GCSE, not sure how close to an 8 but does admit that more could have been done for GCSE. They did have a few struggles at the beginning of Y12 but he knew someone who’d graduated with a maths degree and had done the same exam board so got some tutoring with them. Y12 content was okay, did well at the AS level papers at the end but bombed badly in October Y13. Got the Uplearn signed up, did every single extra maths class offered by his teacher and did every past paper available. It worked, he got a comfortable B on the Edexcel papers this year.

It should be possible to fill those gaps. Sciences are the same the A levels build on knowledge from the GCSE I don’t see people saying you can’t do biology, chemistry or physics without a 7 or an 8 in science. Therefore, I suggest there is a problem with the maths A level.

Actually lots of people do say don't do science A levels with a 6. I don't have the detailed knowledge to talk about that tbf, but DS2 took biology with a 9 and it was no walk in the park. Obvs just one example. GCSE Chemistry AQA grade 6 was 47%+; biology was 44%+. I would want a higher % understanding for A level really.

What A level do you teach @jobnotsure? What sort of results do you get from students gaining a 6 at GCSE, just out of genuine interest?

ETA: IME of MFL there just isn't time to fill gaps in basic GCSE-level knowledge at A level, certainly not in the teaching time, with the volume of topic, advanced grammar and vocab and lit/film content to cover.

Well sure, the gaps could be filled, this is why we set bridging work over the summer and advise them to work hard to learn the stuff that they don't already know how to do. But they can't be filled in lessons because we don't have any time, we need to get through the content.

And also, if they got a 6, then they have already struggled with this content and failed to master it. It's generally not a quick fix, and chances are if they struggled to master the grade 7/8/9 material, they will also struggle with A-level content, because it's harder than that.

It's not impossible for someone who got a grade 6 to get a top grade. It's unlikely that they will make more progress with tricky material in 2 years than someone who got a grade 9, especially as they start from behind.

I was told at Physics A-level that a chunk of the stuff learned for GCSE was -lies- simplifications... And science is still much more knowledge and fact based than maths and languages.

I did A-level a long time ago off an A at GCSE, got an A (before A was a thing at A - Level) and was starting to run into stuff I couldn't get my head around at the end of the pure maths course. Vectors and Matrices were kicking my butt. As it was modular I just hoped they'd be smaller questions in the exam, they were and I got an A in the module (needed an E to get an A overall thanks to solid results to that point) but if the final 2 questions had been on those 2 topics I'd have topped out at a C in the module. I didn't do further maths but did do A level and somehow got a merit for context...

I found all of my A levels relatively easy (French maths physics) other than this one topic, but I definitely felt like I'd run into my maths "ceiling" on vectors and matrices.

I got an A at A level maths in 1976.

I came across the books for Year 1 / Year 2 Pure and Applied in a charity shop. I bought them out of curiosity.

I am retired, so I spend about an hour a day on it. It took me 2 years to work through the year 1 books. I am now onto year 2. I found the year 1 books really tough, as I hadn't done any of it for 50 years.

Year 2 seems a doddle now I am over that hump. Back in the day, we had to do additional maths O level to be allowed to do the A level, and we had to drop history and geography to fit it in.

This is a really interesting thread.

What subjects would we suggest for a student who got 6/7's at GCSE?

I think we've ruled out Maths, all Sciences, all MFL's and English Language.

History should be fine.

What else? Or is it a case that A-levels in general are not the right choice for students 'only' getting 6/7's at GCSE?

Learning maths again has helped me overcome depression, and I notice my problem-solving skills are coming back.

Ridiculous, isn't it. We're told that 7s and 6s were As and Bs in old money. Which would've been perfectly acceptable grades with which to take any A level.

Love this! Do you mind my asking what book/app/course you used?

I teach A level psychology which is classed as a science and actually has a lot of biology in it. But we don’t require more than a 5 grade in Science but I would appreciate a 6 or higher and it would make my life easier. As I could be more confident that more students would understand what neurotransmitters are for example. Most students come in with no foundation in psychology at all, only a small number have the qualification at GCSE. I have in the past taught students A level psychology without maths GCSE which is usually not allowed. We have had to fill the gaps so I know it is possible to do so.

As I said earlier I just think it’s a sorry state of affairs that students with B grades are being discouraged from continuing with maths. In some cases those with a 7 and 8’s are being put off.

Interesting post & very different to my experience of school 20 plus yrs ago. I remember finding the step up to A-levels hard in that I didn’t have to do much for GSCEs whereas A-levels required revision etc but I don’t remember many of us needing A/A* to do our A-levels & it wasn’t a barrier to high grades so presumably things have changed a lot.