Yearly warning about taking A-level maths with a 6 at GCSE

[noblegiraffe]

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day.

So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a strong correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder.

There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table I've posted), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications.

If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade.

If your child is considering maths with a grade 7 but will be applying for extremely competitive uni courses, consider whether they actually need it as A*s and As from a 7 are not likely. Obviously, anything is possible, check how far they were off an 8, ask their teacher for advice, but please don't assume that an (old) A at GCSE translates to an A at A-level.

This data is from 2019, there's more recent data but not in as clear a format, and the message is basically the same.

If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths instead, which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography).

If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

If they haven't been set any bridging work - don't assume that's ok! There are some resources here to help https://alevelmathsrevision.com/bridging-the-gap/

All of your points are excellent here and support my argument that the system is crap. It’s not fair on teachers, students or parents IMHO and on that note I am now finally bowing out! 😂

I am having some repairs done to my roof. Frankly, based on what I am being charged for 3 days work, I would encourage your DC to become roofers.

In my school you could do any A level with those grades. And you'd do well.

English lang is easier than lit (I teach both). Stylistics can be difficult, but the other bits are easy. Lit requires more independent thought.

Yup I don’t advise it. My son got a 6 in Maths (one of his lowest grades as most were 8s & 7s) Despite this he thought it would further his career & even sought advice from Head of Maths who said if he put the work in, it was achievable. However, even with the help of a private Tutor he only got an E. He also took Physics which he passed but proved brutal (despite getting an 8 at GCSE) but was happy with his Geography grade which was a high B.

This is a more recent conversion table. Maths teacher of 30’years. Please don’t do Maths with a 6.

Are external candidates included in these results? Perhaps they're home educated children who go on to study A Levels at home.

The latest data attached is Edexcel provided data, so pupils who sat Edexcel maths GCSE and Edexcel maths A-level Edexcel is by far the most popular exam board for both GCSE and A-level maths, so it would capture the vast majority of students. This would include any external candidates.

Still not sure what was going on in 2017!

Thank you so much!

I started maths A level (just did the AS in the end) and when we started the Stats module we were also told half the gcse stuff was lies! I couldn’t then get my head around what we were then taught. The mechanics and pure maths was even worse.

I went from an easy A at gcse to a D and dropped it! I completely agree with this warning on this thread.

Meanwhile I got an A* in a MFL and got a high B at A Level. And the poster was right about this, if you don’t understand the basics in that language which is tbh all you need for gcse then you’re going to be lost. GCSE was really not that hard if you could remember basic vocab and grammar.

To be fair I did my A levels ages back and my school said you could only do maths if you had an A or A* or - a B but it had to come from the higher paper and they’d speaks to you on a like individual basis if that was that case.
It seems odd to me other schools wouldn’t do that. They weren’t struggling for students though and wanted high results.

@noblegiraffe why are you not allowed to tell your students the data and likely outcome with a gcse grade 6?

I get it that you're in competition with the next college but that's crazy! Sixth forms seem over subscribed in most places so wouldn't it make more sense to be upfront even if it put a few kids off choosing your college?

This makes me realise how good my boyfriend's results were of 10 a stars back in 1998. Sounds like with grade inflation that's as good as all 9s these days?

I did gcse in around mid 90s and got a B. Which was then a C at add maths and then alevel. It likely impacted my other alevels.
But back then gcse wasnt that stretching so the A grades and A star were not necessarily more able but perhaps more accurate.
but now gcse is a lot lot harder and so the 6 dont get to do much of the paper where previously i could do all. Even with my C at alevel the 8/9 grade work is inaccessible largely to me. The 8-9 are more accurate representation of the top say 5-10%.

Also dd with a grade 6 with 7 target isnt even in the top 1/3 of her school for science or maths

@NuffSaidSamBusiness Studies or Economics would be good. I teach Business and as longs as they had 6 in both Maths and English then a student could study one of those at our school. Sociology, Psychology, Law, Geography and History would all be good depending on their interests. I always advise my Y11s to pick the subjects they enjoy the most (& A Level students too when discussing degree options). Unless you're going for a very specific job with a very specific academic path eg medicine/dentistry then they should study what they find the most interesting

If you apply and meet the entry requirements, you're in. I don't know if there's a number at which we'd say 'sorry, too many applicants' but we've never met it yet. Obviously if you end up with massive classes then that's for the maths dept to deal with, not the person who deals with admissions.

But bums on seats = money. It's existential.

Just wondering-Which is the better achievement?

Grade B maths Summer 1993 or Grade A maths summer 2017.

I did both. Paid for the 2017 course as I was still disappointed with the Grade B.

These threads haunt me.... DS loves maths and really wants to do it at A level (with no particular career / uni pathway in mind)... he worked hard for GCSE, but althogh had a tutor for year 11 and missed an 8 by 4 points, finding the exams really hard. He knows exactly what he got wrong, months later.

He is not very good with arithmetic , but loves playing with numbers to see what they do and is going to a college with a great reputation for maths where standards will be high, workloads even higher.

I am worried for him because I got screwed over by A level maths myself (went from an A at GCSE to a U due to thinking I knew better than to attend any maths lessons).

He doesn't want to do anything else, it's maths he gets switched on for and won't be persueded to drop it.

What do you reckon?

@jobnotsure I think there should be a stepping stone qualification. Something like Core Maths (but more algebra-based) in year 12 and then AS-level Maths in year 13. That only works if you are taking four subjects though, since neither is a full A-level, and that is probably one reason why schools do not offer this progression.

At one point there was a "Use of Mathematics" A-level, which was not "respected", but perhaps actually useful. I don't know to what level this took pupils, though.

I started a thread about this last week because of my concerns about my dd taking A level Maths. She loves maths and really enjoys solving maths problems. She’s v stubborn too and is now in the mindset to prove me and everyone else wrong. Without doubt she’s a hard worker and determined.

She got a 7. Comfortably a 7 but not a mark or two off of an 8. She had a bit of a panic during paper 2, struggled to get back on track and feels this has affected her mark. She says if she could do it again she’d have done a lot better. Although this isn’t as reassuring as she thinks it is!

She’s done well overall and can take 4 A levels so there is a chance it’s something she could drop later on. A maths teacher said they would review her understanding & ability within the first few weeks and advise her accordingly if there were any issues.

Sadly the way subjects have been blocked doesn’t help much with alternative A levels to do instead. At least ones she is interested in.

I do feel your pain. Looking at the stats about grades achieved does make me nervous.

My DS took Economics GCSE this year and got a 6, after being predicted an 8. He got a 7 in Maths but wasn’t intending to do Maths A Level.

The school (private) are not allowing him to take Economics for A level and they don’t offer business or accounting so we are thinking of moving schools now.

I think that is outrageous. DS is doing economics with GCSE 6/7 profile and doing really well. This is normal.

@Namechangedisaster according to the recent table posted above about 30% of students starting with a 7 get an A or B and about 60% get an A-C.

On mumsnet it can seem.like everyone is getting straight As, but they aren't. Bs and Cs wont open up the most selective courses, but they do enable worthwhile next steps. If he wants to do A level maths, doesnt have 3 stronger subjects or ones he is more interested in and is willing to put the work in i'd say go for it. However, im not a maths teacher so posters more experienced in this area might take a different view.

He got close to an 8 and really wants to do maths. If he's going to work hard then that's great. Has he done the bridging work? If he does, and works really hard to master that, then he will find it much easier in September, and a good start in September will boost his confidence for the rest of the year.

Not being very good at arithmetic is fine, all A-level exams are calculator allowed. How is his algebra? That's the real key.

That's mad. Only around 8,000 students sit Economics GCSE every year while around 40,000 sit A level. The GCSE is very niche and in my professional opinion poorly designed and pointless as A level repeats so much of it but with appropriately aged students.

I've had students with high grades in Economics GCSE do poorly in the A level because they rest on their laurels and/or don't sufficiently develop their essay writing, and students do brilliantly with no previous contact with the subject.

We don't set entry conditions involving the Economics GCSE but instead rely on English and Maths.

Regarding Maths A-level, even if you "only" come out with a B or a C, you've still acquired useful knowledge, haven't you? Although Core Maths does seem a better option.

I was in the top set for Maths GCSE in 1988 and took it a year early, getting an A in old money. They made us do AS Maths in what would now be year 11. Woah it was hard. I got a B but I'm sure it ultimately helped me get an A at A level two years later.

I agree with this. There seems to be an element of ‘if you’re not going to get an A ⭐ or an A at A-level then there’s no point taking that A-level which I don’t necessarily think is true. Mine aren’t that age yet but I have friends whose children got Bs and Cs at A-level and went on to do good courses at decent universities and do well.
I think maybe maths is slightly different (I got an A at GCSE maths but knew I wouldn’t have coped with the A-level). But generally, the fact that you’re ’only’ likely to get a B or C at A-level shouldn’t put you off the A-level, unless you’re looking at highly selective universities.