Communication is so bad

[purpleme12]

I'm feeling really disheartened by the lack of communication from my child's school.
I can't seem to get answers to the things i need half the time when i email in.
They don't pass messages on when they need to about someone coming in to see her so that doesn't help her at all in fact the opposite.
They say they'll have a word with my child and let her know the process of things but this his never done either.
Would you make a complaint about things never being acted on and not being able to get information that you should get
it seems so simple eg why can't i find out what lesson her instrument lesson would be in if she has instrument lessons

it shouldn't be this hard to get communication either to me or to her.

@purpleme12 when you email a school it is very different to emailing a company. There is usually no Customer Relationship Management system to attach unique id numbers to messages and track the responses in line with a service level agreement - just an email inbox administered by staff with a multitude of other things to do. They can forward your message to someone, and you will hopefully get a response, but that person will be very busy too, juggling lots of balls, some of which will get dropped. There are a lot of children, and many of them will have SEN or SEMH needs. Many of them will also have peripatetic music lessons and, as others have said, schools routinely move these around to minimise the impact on specific subjects. So you need to decide whether that is palatable or not - if not, arrange lessons outside of school instead.

My recommendation would be to lower your expectations of a personalised service, and work towards building resilience and self reliance in your child. You can explain that the teachers and support staff are doing their best in a difficult situation.

So out of interest, the people who've intimated that I'm expecting too much, if a teacher said they'll find some information out for you but never got back to you, and if another teacher said they'd have a word with your child about the process for something but never did, you wouldn't be bothered that nothing was followed through on?

A few people have mentioned instrument lessons being on at different times each week. Well yes if that was the case I can understand it being harder to say what lesson she'd have it but I don't even know if our school do it like that or not do I? 🤷 That would be a very simple reply to give, if that's how they do it.
Although I suspect they don't do it like that.

Just with regards to the last comment about building resilience and self reliance in my child. Surely that's just something we naturally do anyway with our children. It's not an either/or.

And then when they say 2 teachers aren't here for parents evening but give out the email to email instead.
When you email one it says this group isn't set up to receive messages from your email ,(don't know what that's about).
The other, you don't get a reply from

@purpleme12 if a teacher said they'll find some information out for me but never got back to me, and if another teacher said they'd have a word with my child about the process for something but never did, I would be mildly irritated that those two things weren't followed through on but wouldn't extrapolate it to "nothing was followed through on" or be bothered enough to post online about it, no. I would be empathetic enough to assume those teachers are so busy that those things fell through the cracks.

I had 2 children go through secondary school and probably emailed the school with questions about 5 times in total for both children combined. That's still five times more than my own parents ever asked questions of the school that my brother and I went to. And yet funding per child is now lower than it was then, and the number of children with identified needs has sky-rocketed. Email is at the fingertips of every parent, and many are trigger-happy in using it, yet teachers still have the same number of hours in the day.

If you knew the teacher wasn’t attending and then on annual leave why didn’t you tell your child?

I wish I did know! If they'd have told me rather than the school then I would absolutely have been able to communicate it to her! At least that would have softened SOME of the blow in advance.

I only knew she was on annual leave because I phoned the place to find out what's going on as a session had been missed with no explanation

Today is perfect example how not every child can speak up. The person coming in to help her did it in the wrong lesson. She suggested to me that my child can actually pick which lesson to have this session as it might give her more control. They agreed which lesson, all fine. (But the first session she was pulled out of the wrong lesson for this session!). I made sure school were aware which period it should be in. Told my child to say 'no it's not till such and such period' if it happened again.

Well it did happen again today. Did she say anything? No. You can encourage your child to advocate for themselves or say something but obviously it doesn't always work out like that does it.

This is then another reason why she thinks in her head that it's not working as it should do, after having been let down 3 times about 3 second not happening through no fault of my child's, and the two sessions she has managed to have have been in a completely different lesson to the one that was agreed. It's another reason why it's going not as it should do. While it might not be a big deal to me (and even less of a big deal to people on here), it's a bigger deal to her. Not forgetting that this person is clearly coming in in the first place because she needs help mentally/emotionally. But it comes out with me of course. I see more of the effects.

(And no I don't believe that today was school's fault actually. I think it was the fault of the person coming in to see her).

@purpleme12 as the person coming in to school to help your child emotionally seems unreliable, and is pulling your child out of lessons they should be attending, then it seems they are making things worse, not better. Have you considered seeking mental health support outside of school instead? If your child is constantly being pulled out of lessons for this, and for instrument tuition, it will negatively impact her learning.

I think you have slightly unrealistic expectations of a secondary school to be honest. If someone is coming in to see her, depending on their availability and your DDS timetable, and dare I say it, the needs of others, the session may be moved in the day. That's normal in secondary. People coming into school will likely be elsewhere before and after so flexibility is required.

The things you mention about teachers passing on information, how do you know this hasn't happened? I've had kids swear I haven't told them something when I know full well I have.

Finally if your communication with school is as vague as it has been here, then they probably can't decipher what you're asking for in the emails.

I think the fact that school are paying for someone to come and see her when she has no formal diagnosis is in itself remarkable and that’s probably the bit to focus on.

Well this is mental health support that I've sought outside school. You could have had it in school or out of school eg in family hubs or library maybe. She chose to have it in school which I knew she would because she is familiar with school. She is not familiar with a family hub for example and wouldn't want it in a library..

But in hindsight of course, with the problems we've had from it, it probably would have been better to have it in a family hub. Unfortunately I didn't know this and it's a bit late now

The first paragraph isn't true in this case. I have explained that the person coming to see her suggested herself that my child chose which lesson it's in. They then agreed between themselves. There was no point doing that if that wasn't going to be the case. (The person also communicated with me before these sessions that she would get my child to choose as well).

Re the second paragraph, I really don't think my child would be so bothered, and it returns contribute towards her dysregulstion so much if she'd been told. Plus other things. It's hardly unfeasible that she hasn't been told.

I am confident that I haven't been vague with school. The emails that have been answered very much show that they've understood me.

They're not paying. I haven't got any success from school when I talked to them about her problems. ☹️

This is like CAMHS but a step down. They come to see people in schools

I think you need to separate out the two issues. The mental health support worker isn’t employed by the school or organised by the school. They’re facilitating it and realistically they’re not going to do much more apart from here’s the room and hence not passing on messages. I visit schools and never rely on them to pass on a message, if I’m ill, they’ll let people know but I’ll also message as a back up, but anything else, I’ll contact parents myself. I would try and get a direct contact for her if you can.

With the other communication, myself and several others have said if things are generally not happening, and yes the expectation is in secondary that your DD goes and reminds teachers or asks herself e.g. music lessons, the expectation would be very much she asks in her music lesson. However if she can’t and is struggling with that then contact the form tutor or head of year and ask for a phone call or meeting and see if you can get things ironed out.

Unless you're paying for it, School or the nhs/council is. School are funding it by allowing the service to use their premises and also schools staff time to communicate with you.

My experience is that servcies say they will try a certain time but they don't guarantee it. That part of the messaging may have been missed by your DD quite easily.

At this age children are expected to be more independent. If she needs information, seek out the person and ask.

In the nicest possible way, your DD is one of likely 1000+ students in the building. If we got multiple emails about them all, we'd never be able to reply.

@Ionacat Re the first point, It is school's job to communicate the things I'm talking about you her re the person coming in. I know this because I've contacted the people providing the sessions. I even suggested letting me know about missed sessions rather than school but they literally told me they communicate with the school..

@Happytaytos no the person coming in should definitely be seeing her in the lesson agreed. Beforehand I was told myself that that's what they'd do. She is in the school at that time, not elsewhere.

If that's what she told you then you need to ask her about it - not the school.

It's very easy for the service to blame the school, but the school may not be aware of the service's expectations of them, and may not be in a position to fulfill those expectations.

You need to remain calm, polite and empathetic in your comms.

Is there a parent whatsapp group? If so, they might be able to help you with the music lesson question. However I recommend you don't pile in to that group with moans about school comms - you will find some fellow complainers, but other parents will judge you for it - it's best to keep the group atmosphere positive and supportive of the school and to use your complaining voice sparingly.

I know I need to ask the person about the particular lesson. I wasn't saying that that particular thing was school's fault. I know that thing is not. That's the person's fault but I did say that earlier in the thread anyway.

They are aware of the expectations. Which is literally to pull her from the class she's in when the person asks for that, and to pass on any messages from the person if there are any.

I've never had a WhatsApp group for a school.

I always thought WhatsApp groups only existed in primary in general anyway?

It sounds like the service have expectations of the school, but that’s not clearly communicated, or the school can’t facilitate and doesn’t realise that messages aren’t being duplicated elsewhere. Is there anyone in school responsible for liaising with this service? I would contact them if there is but I would politely be going back to the service and saying DD’s secondary is large, understandably messages are going astray and you need some direct contact or the service needs to sort it out with the school.

Many secondary schools have Whatsapp groups. They are sometimes organised and moderated by the PTA. If your school has a PTA, reach out to them and ask.

There's no PTA at ours

I agree with PPs @purpleme12 – I think you need to remember that there are hundreds of DC at the school and, not to say that your DD or any other YP is not important, but bc of the scale of a secondary school, students are expected as we say to be a bit more independent and seek out info themselves.

You imply that there are numerous issues, but you have only detailed two. If these are the main issues I agree, I would divide them:

• Music lesson: does she have this now or are you looking to start it and trying to avoid a favourite lesson? As we have all said, the teacher or the school may try to vary which lesson is hit, but if there are only a few students on one specific day that may be tricky. If she is not yet taking the lesson, I suggest you hold on this for a bit; a student IME will be expected to speak up in the lesson “Miss I need to leave for my flute lesson” and it sounds as tho she is not ready for this yet. In any case if and when she does start lessons, it will be the music teacher who communicates directly with you again IME.
• Support session: I can see it is frustrating that it keeps changing or not happening, but again, this is not really for the school to communicate. It sounds as though you have had comms from the support worker – so since your DC is not confident to do this, could you message the support worker directly the day or week before to check they will be coming? Otherwise your DD is going to need to find a way to ask about the situation herself.

Overall I think secondary schools can be poor at comms but that’s often a matter of logistics. However happy I was as a classroom teacher to speak to a parent, it was generally impossible during school hours as I was teaching. If I got messages, I would try to ring them back, but it wasn’t always possible. To some extent as a secondary school pupil and parent, you need to take the initiative. I hope you can work out something positive for you both.

Go back to the service provider. Nothing to do with school that they aren't there when she expects to be honest.

I agree re initiative and asking face to face. You're more likely to get an answer. Schools are hugely busy!

Re the first paragraph, it is to do with the school. But that's already been explained above