Year 7 daughter overwhelmed at secondary school despite support in place

[Tinkerin]

My daughter is in yr 7 started well but massively burnt out by around week 2 of term 2….

Since then she’s been getting gradually even more overwhelmed and anxious and exhausted.

Shes not being bullied and she’s is a fairly small school but she says the classes and corridors make her feel that she has to be alert for danger all the time and she’s fine the pressure of all the work overwhelming. Shes not yet found a best friend or small social group so she feels on the edge of groups.

She is having maximum support at school. Transition pass, 5 min to leave the classroom if overwhelmed, can wear PE kit , soft start…

But none of this seems to be working.

She says she needs someone to talk to at school each day but often that can’t be arranged. And even then , I don’t know if that would solve the issue.

Before half term I just couldn’t bare the anguish any more so she had Friday off but now is crying about going back on Monday.

She is getting assessed for adhd / autism next month but until then we can’t be sure of the underlying issues…

Any help / advice would be much appreciated

Thanks 🙏

Not practical advice but reassurance that it may yet work for her:
I was SO unhappy at my Secondary school for the whole of the first year. A fish out of water, just as you describe. Tough transition and little support from peers and teachers. A bundle of anxiety.
By the middle of Year 8 I had started to make some friends and I managed to do a week's residential which helped with that.
By Year 9 I was hanging out with the bulk of my class, being invited to parties etc.
Year 10, 11, 12 I adored it,
By Year 13 I felt very fond of it and comfortable, but I was ready to leave.

After a rocky start when I cried every day for a year, I grew to love it so much that I eventually went back to work there as a teacher. Now I'm in my 50s and I still love it. All my best friends to this day are my school friends from my teenage years. It may yet work out for your DD.

Does she have friends there? Does she do clubs/sport at school? This often helps them make friends. If they make friends quickly this helps them settle in. Before any new school (from nursery onwards!) I always arranged playdates asap at start of school and even meet ups w some kids prior to (went out of my way to find and meet people I knew going to the school). I found this helped the kids settle in fast.

Feeling like she has to be alert for danger at all times in a school is unusual. Is it a rough school or is this feeling linked to her possible diagnosis?

Is it the wrong school for her?

She did have friends and did all the play dates beforehand and spent a whole term super happy but then burnt out xx

Our school has a kind of place people can go at lunchtime if they need to in the support base, even if they are not having learning support. What about helping at the school library, there are often lots of quieter children who hang out there. Is there a scripture union worker, the one in our school does actual counselling as well as running lunchtime clubs. Learn an instrument, loads of children love hanging out in the music department . I hope she finds a wee niche soon.

The school had this too but still not enough.. 😔

So sorry your DD is going through this.
My DD is going to secondary in September, she has ADHD and Autism. This being constantly alert (fight or flight) feeling is really common in autistic girls and also linked to anxiety. I don't know what the answer is - if you can get an EHCP she will have options to move to a smaller school.
Mine feels like this at primary school so god knows how she will do at secondary.
My eldest ended up not attending school at all but having home tutors instead and that was easier for him.

Totally agree with this.
I hated secondary school for the first 6 months. I was small and it felt claustrophobic when classes were changing. I was overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of people and everyone being much taller than me.

My mum took me home for lunch every day and that helped to break up the day. I had good friends out of school but hadn’t really connected in school yet. In those days there was no additional support provided.

I rode it out, grew a bit taller so it was less intimidating and made a couple of friends by the end of the 1st year and then things got better.

My advice would be to break the day and week down into manageable chunks for her. Support her to make friends by inviting a classmate home for tea or on an outing or 2 or 3 girls round for a BBQ.
Try not to medicalise the situation, lots of us found the transition to secondary difficult but we did just fine eventually.Much of school is about developing life skills and so It’s important to find what coping skills work for her as she’ll need them in the future.

Brilliant that she has the assessment coming up so soon. This should bring some clarity.

Until that point I wonder if the Ross Greene type thing could help - he has a framework for working out solutions where the child is struggling with a particular expectation and it's not possible for them to adjust their own skills, behaviour or ability to cope with the expectation right now. You can work through it with her for each part of the school day, and it might be possible to come up with some solutions. These may be temporary solutions because over time her skills and abilities will develop, but they often take the pressure off which improves both behaviour and ability to cope.

The framework is in all of his books:

The Explosive Child - most well-known, you/school might have a copy already.
Raising Human Beings - same info in a parenting context but more NT (or just non-explosive) child coded.
Lost At School/Lost and Found - school-orientated versions of the book (not sure of the differences between them. Possibly LAS focuses more on the ways the school system disadvantages children who struggle vs LAF focuses more on the method for what to do to help them).
The Kids Who are Not OK - his newest one with a much wider focus generally on how schools/society/everything could support struggling children better.

It is also on his website:

https://livesinthebalance.org/educators-tour/

My autistic son is really struggling as well. School have offered us a reduced timetable - would that help?

I also picked up on this:

She says she needs someone to talk to at school each day but often that can’t be arranged. And even then , I don’t know if that would solve the issue.

IME children who have a very sensitive nervous system, whether that's related to autism, ADHD, trauma or something else are pretty reliant on co-regulation (ie, physical proximity or access to a "safe person") still and I wonder if this is what she means but without the language to describe it more accurately. It is very similar to how a toddler is more confident in new situations when they have the knowledge that they can come back to their attachment figure. With autism specifically, a lot of autistic people find it draining and exhausting to be around other people who are not "safe people" - ie - people they know well enough or who are acting in very predictable ways. It doesn't even have to be a direct interaction which is draining, it's just being in the vicinity of all the people who might do unpredictable things. This is an understanding I've gleaned from various different bits of different sources so I can't really explain where the whole thing comes from, but it fits very well for my DS (7). He was struggling massively at school and basically in a constant state of fight or flight, although ADHD medication has helped him enormously in sort of "turning things down", so this does not seem to be the case any more. And I think he now finds his teacher and classmates to be OK, but he struggled when they mixed the whole school up into mixed-age groups for a project week, and I don't know how he will handle the transition to secondary school (luckily several years away for us yet) because I can imagine that if a child is struggling with this kind of difficulty, primary school may be manageable because they're in the one classroom with usually one main teacher, perhaps a TA, and the same classmates all day. So they can all become "safe" to an extent. Whereas at secondary they have multiple teachers, multiple classrooms, possibly even a mixture of different class groups and they have to navigate the class transition and the breaktimes with all of the students, which is so much more to cope with.

Mona Delahooke may be a useful resource to look at actually - possibly even more so than the Ross Greene CPS model. Although it sounds a bit bonkers and touchy feely and I don't always feel able to explain these things to school, because I suspect they think I am a bit mad. And of course, it might not physically be possible for them to have a staff member available to her constantly if she does not qualify for full time 1:1 support.

But I wonder - does she say that she does feel she needs this constantly, or is it more that she needs the confidence that she could go and speak to someone, if she needed to - I am wondering if there is a staff member in more of a pastoral role who is available for pupils to talk to, or whether she could talk to her form tutor, or perhaps be "buddied" with an older student (ideally someone who is empathetic, supportive and volunteers for the role, not a random person who is assigned) who she can check in with from time to time? Ideally it would be someone she already considers a "safe person" but like toddlers building attachment, it is also possible for a previously unknown person to become a known, safe person.

And she says talk to, rather than be with. Would it work for this to be a phone call - could she have an allowed time to call you or someone else? This could be more disruptive/make things worse so I would probably only try this with caution.

I’ve been through this with my now 17 year old on year 8. She’s been masking for years and basically her mental
bucket just over spilled and her life and ability to cope stopped. We got support from CAMHS and another charity that helped with people who self harm,
which started a month or so before she fell apart. She thankfully got diagnosed with ASD and Tourette’s syndrome. She never went back to school but is now in college and is coping ok so there can be light!
woth regard to school, its
their job to educate your child, id that environment doesnt work they need to come up with alternatives that will work. Have appointments with the SEN tram
amd head of year. Ask for an assessment from the ed psych,
and when you call
in sick, say it’s her mental health, and you don’t feel your child would be safe at achool that day with her MH today.
never de-register her, all the time she’s a pupil there they need to help her, if she’s de-registered then it’s down to you to organise and pay for.
lookup your local authority regulations and use it to your favour to ensure the school actively helps you. There are support groups on Facebook that are useful.
always be professional, take notes and follow meetings with emails and a list of action points school will do and a timeline of when that is.
good lock, this isn’t uncommon, so fight your child’s corner, and get the help she needs. The paediatrician will
hipefully help, my daughters used to attend the school meetings via teams when necessary.
my daughters ended up with 5 GCSEs, that was enough for her to manage (she has chronic fatigue like many ASD children, so has only a certain amount of ‘spoons’ and gets exhausted easily…. There’s a thing called the spoons theory, worth looking up if your child is like this too. She had three tutors who visited on 3 separate days each week, and she had an online science lesson each day, she never went back to school except to sit exams, in a room with just an invigilator
good luck!

Hi OP is she on the SEND register? What they have out in place isn’t working. Who is supporting her is it pastoral /inclusion or SEND?

She needs to be referred for counselling which can take a while.

Have you been in and had a plan drawn up by the Sendco or inclusion team or the EWO? She needs to check in with some each day that should be easy to facilitate. Then a check in once a week. We have ans ASD champion who is a TA who meets with students but I would pull TA an intervention once a week to meet with your DD.

she needs a support plan in place and it need to be actionable so I’d suggest pushing for her to go on the SEND register with SEMH. She may or may not have A ND diagnosis but she need support now. If you were at my school I’d invite you in with DD and make a plan. She needs to identify three trusted adult- usually a TA. a teacher and a pastoral person. What does she do at break and lunch? What intervention are available and how are the run. We have Lego therapy, SALT, nurture and ASD support. If she has an IEP in place this might help her. As it is actionable and enforceable by teaching staff.

I am a teacher and qualified SENDCO but I can’t be bothered to correct the typos.

Is she still friends with the dc? Is the burn out from too much work? If that is the case, then perhaps you need to have a convo w her about not worrying so much about it, lighten the pressure etc. Unfortunately, some kids feel more pressure then others. Year 7 is meant to be fun. Hopefully the school can help.

You have jumped straight to an instagram diagnosis of “burn out”.

When this is a child who has hitherto been happy but in the last few weeks has experienced friendship issues. But unfortunately you have over excitedly leapt on it as “burn out” and given a load of unnecessary attention when really this is just part and parcel of growing up. As for keeping her off school every Friday? FFS. How’s that going to help with the friendship issues

i honestly do mean this really kindly - is she burnt out or tired? The school year is tiring, it’s hard work.
shes already made/had made choices that make her stand out as very different. Would rolling any back help friendship wise? Agree that she needs to try different clubs etc to find something she enjoys and finds energising at lunch rather than tiring

if she’s not feeling safe in the corridors, has something led to that?

she should be on the send register and have a passport regardless of diagnosis. This can include having someone each day. Ideally it would be her form tutor but could be someone pastoral. Key to this is making it the same time every day though otherwise it’s very hard to guarantee someone is there for her on a busy school - you can knock on the heads of year any time, but they might be with someone else. She could have a list of a couple of options perhaps?

is she summer born?

I have a student very like this in my group I think and it’s really hard for her. She has loads in place, but she’s shrinking more into herself every day and pinning hopes on old friends switching schools which I think isn’t going to happen. We go through her homework diary and ensure she knows what to do and set time limits (recommend enforcing these with timers)

your daughter needs support but to enable her to find more to enjoy and look forward to at school

It’s not easy but you need to work out how to manage for your dd. I used the tough love approach with my dd who didn’t want to go to school, she was meant to take the bus but I drove her moaning and crying some days, frog marching her into reception and handed her over to senco, I was often picking her up by 11am but eventually she settled down a bit and they found a better system where she studied in the school office independently but she was 14 then. Others would say this is cruel but I honestly believe she would be in her bedroom now with zero qualifications if hadn’t pushed her through this period, she’s an independent adult now (ish at least) 2 degrees, moved overseas.

This is really helpful. My DD is adopted with attachment issues and is probably ND too - school only functions for her if there’s a safe person, usually her teacher. It all falls apart if, say, her teacher is off sick. I have no idea how secondary school is going to work. 😬

This may not be helpful but I resonate with this. I was diagnosed with Audhd in adulthood but really struggled with secondary school in year 9 when I moved from a small private school (which was quiet) to a bigger louder public school which felt very hectic. Neurodivergent symptoms are also triggered by hormones so a lot of neurodivergent girls/women find puberty/pregnancy/postpartum and menopause extremely difficult.
its difficult to know what the right thing to do is and of course there are limitations to what you are able to do- but trying to somehow manage the sensory overload in some form may help. I worked in the SEND department at a busy secondary school and some children had passes to leave lesson a few minutes early so they could navigate corridors etc while it was quiet.
if she is neurodivergent, she is also likely masking which is pretty exhausting and also contributes to burnout. So this may also be a contributing factor. So if she wishes to have time alone after school/weekends staying in her room etc then to some degree be lenient and allow her to recharge her batteries and also to encourage time on any special interests she may have.
keep in mind some neurodivergent individuals have alexithymia where they feel something but can’t recognise it/label it. So she may not be able to understand why she feels a certain way. Some forms of therapy can be helpful in managing this to help her recognise her feelings and manage them before they become too much.
it may be something you can see a counsellor for in the meantime whilst awaiting assessments, and regardless of the outcome those tools will still be useful to her. It’s tough but knowledge is everything. X

This is not what OPs daughter is experiencing. She’s clearly ND. My child had to come out in Yr 7, and that was that. The nervous system of an ND child is so overwhelmed, you can’t even imagine it. Good luck OP, you are very alert to what’s going on and it’s great how your daughter can explain it. We leant the hard way and my child was so burnt out they no longer spoke at all.

She is not “clearly” anything

She has been absolutely fine until last few weeks, coinciding with friendship issues

You didn’t read the OP properly if you think that. Plus you’re answering like you’re the parent!! I have an ND child and I understand all the signs OP listed and measures in place. It’s not just about friends!