Factors on deciding between private and state

[MaybeNeverSoon]

We are considering private secondary school for our daughter currently in year four. She has one younger sister who would follow three years later.

They are both currently at a lovely state primary.

Having always assumed we would send them private for secondary, we are now having to consider the decision carefully as costs are higher than we anticipated and our salaries perhaps not quite as high as we’d have hoped.

Please could I ask if there are any other factors you’d add to the below pros and cons list? I didn’t go to private school so some of my thoughts may be misguided.

We live in Wimbledon park and would look at day schools as close as possible, so we are looking at c£30k a year fees plus extras, rising each year. Our local state school options are fine but not brilliant.

State
PROS
More grounded view on life.
Will be able to walk / travel easily to school.
No cost!
Shorter school holidays.

CONS
Larger class sizes.
Potentially more disruption to learning.
Teachers potentially less able to focus on the individual due to other pressures.
Fundamentally - that my girls might not achieve their absolute best possible academic outcome.

Private
PROS
Hopefully / presumably a higher quality and more individualised education.
Potentially higher grades achieved at gcse and a level.
More opportunities for clubs and activities.
A “network” or cohort which may be beneficial to them throughout their lives / careers.

CONS
Placing us under financial pressure for ten years.
Longer school holidays (we both work full time).
Likely to have to travel further for school. Friends may also live further away.
Potentially giving my girls the impression that privilege is normal / to be taken for granted.
I would presume we’d be amongst the least wealthy families, and therefore our daughters might feel like they can’t “keep up with the Joneses” in terms of holidays / size of house etc.
Potential impact of positive discrimination in the future for both university and jobs.

I didn’t read the full thread (sorry)

Negative i didn’t see on the posts I have read is high academic pressure. And in your part of London it’s HIGH. The parents are less tiger parents and more t-rex parents. It’s brutal.

My kids are in private and I really hadn’t appreciated that the expectation would be that every waking minute of child’s life would be spend on either homework, or music practice, or enriching clubs.

Also if your kids have been in a state primary you have to consider if they will join already behind. Most London privates are looking for kids to be one academic year ahead of mainstream by year 7.

So the decision is way more than just money.

You’re probably aware of the huge positives of private, beyond grades etc. If you can still live a good life with holidays etc, it’s a no-brainer for private.

I've been conflicted between state and private, because I got a full house of top A-level grades from state and also because I've known a lot of arrogant twats who went to private school. However, on balance I think I agree with this. Private does sound like children are much more carefully and gently nurtured, and it sounds SO much nicer all round than state.

@SoftBalletShoes I went to a state grammar fully loaded with arrogant twats! Especially males. Private schools don’t monopolize in the twat stakes!

Really? The boys at my top state weren't like that at all.

@SoftBalletShoes Was the school top drawer at rugby? Makes a difference!

I agonised over this as was so worried about secondary (and DD moved schools)
We’ve found ourselves with a state school she and her brother are excelling in, the trips and extra curricular activities are above and beyond the provision at the local private where family attend. The behaviour of a few bad eggs hasn’t impacted my two - and we’ve seen some dreadful behaviour from the private school kids at family functions.
DD is now year 9 and in GCSE sets - some of her classes are really small, under 20 as they are in ability sets.
If we could suddenly afford any private school, I wouldn’t move them, they are doing great.

for your list - There’s the pressure on your children to excel when you are paying and potentially stretching yourself financially.

@crappycrapcrap There isn’t if you can easily afford it and some private parents have never set foot in a state school. Plus most decent private schools really do offer more. Dc not balloted out of trips for a start.

The main offenders were from Stowe, The King's School at Canterbury (both had been to Sussex House prep), St Mary's in Wiltshire - Camilla's daughter went there but I believe it's now closed - Roedean, and Sherborne.

What school charges 80k a year?! Even Eton is "only" about 65k.

The crazy price is Eton at only £65k, doesn’t include uniforms, extra clubs (horse riding), music lessons or sport kits, residential trips….that the crazy number total could be 80k. Some kids’ families arrange extra tutoring to get 9s. We know some musicians with thousands of pounds instruments ( play more than one) and insurances for those.

Both mine talk fondly of their school years (one uni one year 12) have lovely friends they are still friends with and achieved their potential academically. Decent single sex state not in grammar area.

I honestly don’t know what we would have gained by paying - which would have massively affected our quality of life and financial stability.

@SoftBalletShoes That’s just a snapshot of schools though - I don’t see the difference between dc in some grammars and these dc. It’s a type of person, not a school. Surprised you haven’t mentioned Eton or Harrow! Roedean is girls and small. Sf Mary’s Calne? Still open. My DDs are friendly with ex Stowe and Harrow pupils but never found a poor attitude. You can always find it if you look for it.

Id never scrimp and save for private and go without. If the money is readily available you do get a great education and a broad education if you pick the right school. Dc will find dc like them with similar interests. Most people do know what the money is buying and there’s a lot more on offer than just subjects and getting to university.

Eton does subsidise a lot. So you do not get broader mix of people attending than some cheaper schools who don’t do that. For example my friend has her son there and is paying an an ‘all in’ price of 20k.

"She has a science degree but no teaching qualifications. That would not happen in a state school" you are just plain wrong!
State academies don't have to employ qualified teachers and over 80% of state secondary schools are academies! Thanks to recruitment and retention crisis it is also common for state schools to not have subject specialists teaching eg PE teachers teaching science in GCSE years etc.
You think parents paying ££ for their child's education will accept a swathe of unqualified teachers?

You are peddling untruths and myths.

Oh, actually, my exH's nephew went to Eton! He's OK, though. He can be a bit arrogant, but his Mum died while he was at school, so I tend to view him quite softly.

Is Roedean small? It's in my hometown and I've driven past it millions of times. The building is huge!

All I can say is that throughout many years of working with and living with people who went to top private schools (one flatmate and one husband, plus most colleagues), I saw a very clear difference between the levels of arrogant twattery between private graduates and the people I knew at state. I'm in my early fifties though. Perhaps twattery isn't as acceptable these days. Probably public-school pupils are more aware of their privilege.

And no, not St. Mary's Calne. St Mary's School, Shaftesbury. The one that Queen Camilla's daughter went to. It closed in 2020.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mary%27s_School,_Shaftesbury

20k for Eton? Wow, that's amazing! is her DS very bright? And what do they think of the school? My exH went to the King's School Canterbury and he has a lifelong hatred of Old Etonians. 🤣 He says "I only know one nice Old Etonian and all the other Etonians hated him!" This was a few decades ago though.

It strikes me that if you're paying 65k min for your kid to be at Eton, you shouldn't have to pay for extra tutoring! That's crazy!

Assume you mean that you DO get a broader range of people attending.

I agree but it may be due to family culture and values as it happens in super selective day schools too. It a crazy escalation of getting top marks.

Blimey. Someone upthread said the parents weren't so much tiger parents as T-rex parents and that it was brutal. And then there are regular state school folk out here getting top A-level grades without all the 80k palaver and rabid parents. (I do acknowledge that this depends on having access to a really good state school though.)

I assumed that as well. But the idea that being able to afford £20k per year gives a 'broad range' of backgrounds is utterly bizarre!

i'm a teacher who has worked in both sectors...
honestly? in a "nice (posh)" area with a high achieving school i think its a waste of money
In an area with a more complex intake, then a private school will give more attention and focus to your child, so maybe worth it
when i worked in private schools the biggest benefit i found to kids was the extra curricular provision, the confidence, and the networking and uni support.

They love it. We’re Indians so being academic is a baseline — the reason they applied to Eton is because it’s a localish school and he’s sporty and a musical / into acting too She said they approached the local schools quite early to encourage people to apply.

So I think part of the old ‘they subsidise to boost their academic / sporting / arts profile, and charge full whack to the rest’ is probably true. I imagine most promising children with some kind of talent will get subsidised.

There really should be a very noticeable difference between any private school and a state school! Why pay otherwise?!

Parents should not just look at academics or sen attention. What they should see are lots of sports with teams. Great facilities. Coaching should be available and minor sports also. Drama and theatre taken seriously. A great performing space for drama and music. Lots of music! Orchestra to rock. Chapel and a calm introduction to the day in an alternative form if appropriate. Lots of clubs. Something for everyone. Plenty of access to former pupils for work experience snd/or inspiration. Talks from famous people. Inspiring trips and curriculum. A special ethos. Teachers at the top of their game. A school that’s a community is a valuable thing. Many state schools cannot be this. Last of all - not super strict. Dc should show respect but be self regulating.