Factors on deciding between private and state

[MaybeNeverSoon]

We are considering private secondary school for our daughter currently in year four. She has one younger sister who would follow three years later.

They are both currently at a lovely state primary.

Having always assumed we would send them private for secondary, we are now having to consider the decision carefully as costs are higher than we anticipated and our salaries perhaps not quite as high as we’d have hoped.

Please could I ask if there are any other factors you’d add to the below pros and cons list? I didn’t go to private school so some of my thoughts may be misguided.

We live in Wimbledon park and would look at day schools as close as possible, so we are looking at c£30k a year fees plus extras, rising each year. Our local state school options are fine but not brilliant.

State
PROS
More grounded view on life.
Will be able to walk / travel easily to school.
No cost!
Shorter school holidays.

CONS
Larger class sizes.
Potentially more disruption to learning.
Teachers potentially less able to focus on the individual due to other pressures.
Fundamentally - that my girls might not achieve their absolute best possible academic outcome.

Private
PROS
Hopefully / presumably a higher quality and more individualised education.
Potentially higher grades achieved at gcse and a level.
More opportunities for clubs and activities.
A “network” or cohort which may be beneficial to them throughout their lives / careers.

CONS
Placing us under financial pressure for ten years.
Longer school holidays (we both work full time).
Likely to have to travel further for school. Friends may also live further away.
Potentially giving my girls the impression that privilege is normal / to be taken for granted.
I would presume we’d be amongst the least wealthy families, and therefore our daughters might feel like they can’t “keep up with the Joneses” in terms of holidays / size of house etc.
Potential impact of positive discrimination in the future for both university and jobs.

@BonjourCrisette If the op can afford fees now, she won’t get a bursary and lots of scholarships have little discount attached. It’s pointless looking for a bursary in those circumstances. If op suddenly becomes a poor family, that would be different but it’s unlikely. Schools in less affluent areas are struggling for bursary money now if it comes from fee income.

There are some private schools that do offer an alternative education. The op isn’t looking at them,

Can I ask, what exactly do you mean by the SW London independents being a microcosm of their own?

More generally for OP - it’s going to be at least £500,000 for two. Can you really afford it? Is it better invested as a house deposit?

What nonsense! Both mine went to state primary and then (different) academic Secondaries. The DCs coming from state primaries were academically the same level as their privately educated peers ( often ahead…) and were not playing catch up at all! They were also fully encouraged to participate in as many extra curricular activities as they could. I’d also say that I think most SW London private school kids mix a lot with state school
friends and aren’t really in some precious bubble. They also seem to all end up at the same Universities wherever they went to school so I wouldn’t over think it all. At DCs primary lots went to Independent secondaries and lots went to State Secondaries - not much difference in their outcomes! Definitely more opportunities for Music, Drama, Sport in general at Independents though.

Couldn’t agree more wish. Exactly the same situation here (nice small city with decent states) so I don’t get the private / state angst.

There is absolutely no difference in the cohorts and they end up in the same universities / socialise together etc. Maybe different if you are in an economically deprived area but here the doctors and solicitors offspring are mostly at the state schools. Private schools tend to be for overseas students or the money no object families who would always go private.

Thank you everyone for your views. We are definitely not a “money is no object” family but we are in an area where the state school provision is average and the indie schools we’d have access to are some of the highest performing in the country. It makes the decision more difficult! This might be what @RosesAndHellebores means by the microcosm, to some extent.

It is a good question whether the money would be better kept back for house deposits @MidnightPatrol. That is the thing I cannot really know, whether a private education will benefit my girls enough to justify a lower house deposit in the future.

😲 Thems is some scary increases!

@MidnightPatrol There is a unique concentration of very competitive top 5 schools (StP, SPGS, Kings), less competitive but still excellent top 25 schools (Godolphin, LEH, Hampton, Wimbledon, JAGS, Dulwich, Alleyn's), and also access to quite a few top grammars. SW parents are spoilt for choice but may also be influenced by extremely competitive culture around some schools and considerable wealth of some demographic groups.

It cannot be compared to even N London.

@wishiwasidisneyland Not all secondaries are the same and not all independent secondaries are the same. Some are very hard to get into and very selective. A very bright dc from a state primary can certainly get in, however the fee paying dc will have been coached. State dc not.

@MaybeNeverSoon Don’t be drawn in by higher earnings from privately educated dc. Plenty of them teach you know! They don’t all get high flying jobs by any means and the competition for them is fierce. Choose independent because it offers more. Don’t assume riches afterwards.

Someone said to me the decision is a bit like business vs economy- you get to roughly the same place but (depending on the relatives schools/the child etc) it could be a more pleasant experience.

I think it's dangerous going in expecting better educational and career outcomes - as others have said, it doesn't seem to be the case in sw london. And that would put pressure on you and your kids. So it's all about how much better you think the experience will be at the privates vs states.

I also recommend looking at Tiffin/Sutton Grammars/Graveney and other selective states - they don't need to go to your local state school.

@ohdear111-well aware of that. I live in SW London and know plenty of state primary children at Kings, SPS, SPGS, LU, G&L, Tiffin etc. The fee paying prep kids are also being tutored on top of the prep fees in most cases.
I was just pointing out that it’s not remotely the case that the state primary kids are playing catch up. They are all sitting the same 11plus exams.

Thank you @todayortomorrow this is an interesting insight.

My worry with Tiffin, Graveney and the Sutton grammars is the journey for my girls every day over more than one method of public transport. The indies run school buses to/from our area which seems like it would be much more pleasant and easy for tired kids. I could be wrong so happy to be corrected. (And I know I need to pay for the buses!)

Yep! I have just checked because this thread made me think, and in November 2021 our monthly direct debit for school fees was £2600 for two kids, one in prep one in seniors. Our direct debit is now £4000. Some of that is VAT obviously (our school added 15%) but a lot of it is just annual increase. Our school normally announces next years’ increase in summer term so not much chance to plan for it if it’s a big jump as it was during the inflation spike.

Also, our school decided (without consultation) to make school lunches a termly compulsory payment of £300 rather than being able to take their own food or just pay for what they had on the day.

You need to be able to have some flex in the budget to absorb those unexpected increases.

Wow!

I’d bet that the bus costs alone are eye watering!

If the fees are a real stretch, which it sounds like they would be, the cut off for receiving no financial help at some of these schools is more than £100K+ household income. Even a partial bursary might help a bit.

And at least one of SW schools is very keen on bursary applications :)

Scholarships in top schools north of the river were up to 50% last year.

Yeah i hear you on the multiple transport options needed. But kids do grow up so much by y7 (& mine's only in y6!) that what seems crazy now might not then.

And my friends with kids in private secondary schools are all making them get public transport vs the buses to save money (some are 1k a term) - the kids also often prefer the freedom.

When my daughter was Year 5/6 she had her confidence massively dented by ongoing bullying that the school failed to stop. Always a bit introverted and not an academic powerhouse she became withdrawn. Her bully was likely to go to the same state secondary. We came into some money and I immediately rang round the local GDST private girl schools and managed to get her in. She has put it all behind her and is now striding towards a good clutch of GCSEs with a good friendship group and high aspirations for the future. In the local 400-pupils-a-year State school she would have been completely lost and overlooked. When her brother's turn came for senior school (both from State primaries) he aced the entrance exam and received a scholarship and bursary so we could send him too. He has SEN and the SEN provision and small class sizes plus emphasis on academic prowess at his school suit him.

OP your predicament is partly due to your choice of place to live. Wimbledon is lovely but educationally it's the epitome of the pay or pray dilemma. There are high performing Catholic state schools and top private schools. Your choice. Other places don't have this issue.

Move three miles down to Sutton you can have more choice of top grammars and high performing comprehensives (with lovely state primaries for younger DC) but fewer private options. Move a few miles further out to Surrey there are good state and private options, however the commute is longer. Of course moving is unsettling but it's very common in London to move for secondary schools.

I do agree that what seems an unimaginable journey in Y5 or Y6 seems a lot better once you are actually doing it. DD had just under an hour's journey (bus and tube). We did the journey once on the open day. Then we did it again for a different thing at the potential school and I let her lead it a bit. Then we went back for exams (twice). Then we went for a new girls day and a music day. By this time she was pretty confident with the route. I took her there on the first day and collected her, and she said 'I'll be fine tomorrow' and she was. She used to call or text to say she'd arrived at school and told me when she was on her way home so I knew when to expect her.

Obviously anything that involves public transport is going to mean sometimes dealing with strikes, delays, cancellations etc. But actually bar a couple of panicked phone calls in the first term when she needed to find another route and didn't know where to start, it was all absolutely fine. The journey is often social time since it's longish. DD travelled with a group after the first few days and enjoyed chatting to her friends etc. And she was great at getting herself around London to see friends and exploring the city within a very short time, and this is such a great life skill.

@BonjourCrisette It really isn’t. Not any more. Bursary income is reduced and they really want fem type dc. Not the kids of headteachers and doctors. Most schools don’t have vast investments for bursaries: they pay from fee income. They want very bright poor dc. Only a handful look at £100,000 and think that’s bursary worthy.

What are fem type DC? Is that an autocorrect?

@SoftBalletShoes Sorry! Didn’t notice. I meant to say “they really want free school meals dc”. Many schools will be selecting from lots of applicants so test results will matter too.

Oh, I see! Thanks. I was puzzled!

@SoftBalletShoes Not sure how these mistakes happen!