Factors on deciding between private and state

[MaybeNeverSoon]

We are considering private secondary school for our daughter currently in year four. She has one younger sister who would follow three years later.

They are both currently at a lovely state primary.

Having always assumed we would send them private for secondary, we are now having to consider the decision carefully as costs are higher than we anticipated and our salaries perhaps not quite as high as we’d have hoped.

Please could I ask if there are any other factors you’d add to the below pros and cons list? I didn’t go to private school so some of my thoughts may be misguided.

We live in Wimbledon park and would look at day schools as close as possible, so we are looking at c£30k a year fees plus extras, rising each year. Our local state school options are fine but not brilliant.

State
PROS
More grounded view on life.
Will be able to walk / travel easily to school.
No cost!
Shorter school holidays.

CONS
Larger class sizes.
Potentially more disruption to learning.
Teachers potentially less able to focus on the individual due to other pressures.
Fundamentally - that my girls might not achieve their absolute best possible academic outcome.

Private
PROS
Hopefully / presumably a higher quality and more individualised education.
Potentially higher grades achieved at gcse and a level.
More opportunities for clubs and activities.
A “network” or cohort which may be beneficial to them throughout their lives / careers.

CONS
Placing us under financial pressure for ten years.
Longer school holidays (we both work full time).
Likely to have to travel further for school. Friends may also live further away.
Potentially giving my girls the impression that privilege is normal / to be taken for granted.
I would presume we’d be amongst the least wealthy families, and therefore our daughters might feel like they can’t “keep up with the Joneses” in terms of holidays / size of house etc.
Potential impact of positive discrimination in the future for both university and jobs.

I will be flamed but this was one of the many reasons we moved out of London as first time parents. . Our work colleagues in the City were driven mad by this school choice at 11. Children taking exams and even having interviews / stress about getting in / bankrupting themselves with fees / weird competitiveness. Looked bloody awful from the outside.

We did the following when we had a baby - 1. moved to place far away with decent stage schools 2. Sent them there.

The teens all end up in the same place and equally as happy so frankly I will never understand the London school drama <runs away>

This is absolutely not true of all schools. And the ones that will give partial bursaries for households with a reasonable income, and which have the money to do so, are within striking distance for the OP.

It is arguably more sensible for schools to give two 50% bursaries or three 33% bursaries than one 100% bursary - both because that helps more children and because if there is a shortfall in bursary funds down the track, a family with a smaller bursary may be more able to hang on for a couple of years eg through crucial exams if the bursary is reduced (or as the non-funded fee is increased through inflation, NI changes, VAT etc)

I hadn’t thought about bursaries but a quick search shows Wimbledon and Putney income limit is £107k, LEH is £100k, Surbiton is £100k, Ibstock Place is £70k, Emanuel is £100k. Might be useful information for anyone searching this thread in the future.

Is moving an option? You could move to Twickenham or Richmond near one of the great state schools in that area? Eg Waldegrave/Orleans park? Similar to you both of us went to selective private/ grammar secondary and assumed children would, but wasn't quite within our reach financially. Luckily we're in an area with decent state secondaries but would have moved if this hadn't been the case. You have to think of the extras with private schools- uniforms, ski trips, coach fare etc. You'll be offered great trips at state schools too but will be able to easily afford them plus lovely holidays etc.

We know friends’ DCs at Emanuel with scholarships at 30% - 50% discount. Here are their policy: Emanuel Scholarships are offered to exceptionally talented pupils in the following areas – academia, music, sport, drama and art – and are available at all entry points. Scholarships are typically 10%, but may be up to 50% and may also be combined with a fee assistance award to reach a completely free place, depending on financial need. It is possible for a pupil to hold more than one scholarship.

The ones with scholarships at girl schools get £200 off.

Thank you @Twobigbabies we like St Margaret’s and thought it seemed like somewhere we could be happy so we have looked at houses online in the catchment for Orleans Park. For a similar house to what we have now, it looked to be about an extra £400k. And a worse commute for both of us. But this is definitely an option I’d need to explore properly and something we need to discuss together as part of the decision!

Friends have been offered academic scholarships ( not bursaries) at WHS and PHS of 25%.
Different people and they didn’t get scholarships at both even though applied to both. WHS and PHS quite different in terms of admissions, curriculum, sport etc.

Only if you choose to get into all that.

We're in Merton Borough, all schools are an acceptable standard, and the one DD went to was absolutely amazing at meeting her specific needs.

Of course some people will have a bad experience, but all the local parents I know have been happy with their (non selective) state school secondary - that covers 5 of the Borough's secondaries. DD the only one with an EHCP.

We considered private, after a horrendous time at primary (not in London), but none would consider her due to having SEN. That was a blessing in disguise - it would have been very difficult financially, and her state secondary couldn't have been bettered.

As well as excellent support for SEN pupils, they regularly send sixth formers to Oxbridge and RG unis. Only ranked 'good' by OFSTED...

Thank you @Baital would you mind sharing the name of the school either here or over DM?

It's a completely valid choice - I know lots of people who did that, many moving to Surrey from SW London. It's a different life though, so you have to want it for yourselves and your family beyond avoiding the ridiculous SW London school drama. The families I know that moved, the women tend to have moved to part-time/term-only roles and the dads commute into London for long days much of the week.

I will DM

I will DM

My children are both at a private primary and will go to state secondary schools (we live in a grammar area, so either grammar or non-grammar). We have decided on this route for a few reasons: (1) there is no local private secondary for boys that we consider to be suitable due to distance. I don’t want either child to have a long commute to school. (2) financial reasons - even though we can afford private primary, secondary is a whole different level. We don’t want to put the pressure on ourselves over the next decade to always be earning top level wages. If we do continue to earn well then we’d much prefer to spend/save the money for our children. (3) academic motivation - because of the 11+ system in our area, the private schools do not achieve amazing results. We feel they’ll be more academic support/motivation at state schools

We have a similar dilemma - DD is Year 5 and we live not too far from you, in Sutton. All the way through primary (a lovely state primary walking distance from our house) I though she would go private for secondary. Now with the cost of living and VAT I am seriously reconsidering this - I have a good job with a decent salary but I am a single mum with no help at all from her father, so if something happens with my job I will have no choice but to move my DD to state school mid year, and in all likelihood there will be no spaces in any of the good schools in the area. So we are preparing for the girls grammar school and will also be applying to Glenthorne High, Graveney and St Philomenas

The bursaries quoted are upper limits for small awards. They aren’t going to give large discounts to people on £100,000. It’s aligned to ability of child and often the policy is to look for fsm dc first.

Nobody is saying they are going to give them a huge bursary. The point is that OP seems to be on the edge of it being affordable and in that case five or ten percent off might help a lot.

The ability of the child in the schools I am thinking about is irrelevant except insofar as they need to be able to pass the exam. There is just one list. If you pass the exam, you get offered a place. If you need financial assistance, they share the available funds out as fairly as possible. I have heard this directly from the bursar and other staff members. They are not looking for FSM children, they are looking for intelligent children who love learning irrespective of income.

Maybe you are unfamiliar with SW London?

on the positive for private is the breath of curriculum. some state schools have literally stopped teaching some subjects: for example the classics teacher at Graveney has just left so the school has decided to stop offering that subject. generally the STEM are really lacking teachers so where in a private school everyone who can/want can learn all three sciences, many state schools don't offer triple sciences or even further maths

Also if your daughter is sensitive, a private school is likely to be more gentle and nurturing. Disciple in some secondary state schools is really harsh and based on compliant children, still using old fashioned punishments like isolation.

would you know the level of bursary they/Emanuel offer?
I am curious in regard to bursary as their website state that family with up £100K of income can apply, which sounds high to me.
on the scholarship, the few people we know only get 5% or 10%

this is so not true !!! in our experience of private the children are actually encouraged to try out new hobbies/sports and interest !!!! music lessons are optional extra that are paid for so one can try what one likes !

or massive needs in the school as it is really not a standard provision anywhere ! are they trainees ?

have you managed to find out what are the bursary in % of the fees offered ? are they small helping hand bursaries or more full on ones that definitely make it possible to actually attend the school?

which schools are those please?

'Some' state schools does a lot of work.in your post.

Hence why the OP should look at specific schools - state and private - before choosing.

DD's state school, in the OP's area, offered triple science and had excellent discipline based on understanding and supporting the pupils, not a harsh or 'one size fits all' approach.

Criticising state schools to presumably justify your outlay on going private is not a particularly good look.