If you're a teacher who advises students on their A Level options ...

[inthisvehicle]

... which of these factors influence your advice, and in what order?:
1.The student's stated interests or career aspiration (and your confidence in their ability to reach their goals).
2.The student's predicted KS4 grades?
3.Attracting good students to your own subject area? (Please say what that is).
4.The school's need to fill up undersubscribed courses.
5.The school's aspiration to retain students that might otherwise go to college or elsewhere.
6.The Office for Students' guidance to HE institutions on its strategic priorities, and their categorisation of some courses as low value.
7.Trends in the graduate job market which show that some courses are more likely to lead to "graduate-level" jobs than others.

Fwiw, my personal experience as a parent (which might not be typical) is that 1-5 are all influential but that not all teachers have visibility of or interest in 6 or 7. As a consequence, they advise based on their own past experience of university, which can be out of date.

That misunderstands how HE works. Schools build their curriculum from off-the-shelf courses. In contrast, HE institutions build bespoke curricula, so are limited by their employees' knowledge. Research-intensive (e.g. "Russell Group") universities are able to attract academics who are working at the cutting edge. Non-research-intensive universities rely on attracting lecturers from industry. They are limited in who they can attract to their teaching positions by the salaries they have to offer, and other factors, such as location.

I'm a Head of Division at a university. I know how courses are designed and curriculum is developed. If one of my course leaders told me that their course was not teaching students the most up to date knowledge or preparing them adequately for employment then that course would be closed down pretty sharpish.

Like any other subject they would be classified by their retention and progression data, i.e. whether most of their students graduate and get jobs in graduate-level employment, or whether most end up working in bars with gaming as a hobby.

"If one of my course leaders told me that their course was not teaching students the most up to date knowledge or preparing them adequately for employment ..."

They're unlikely to tell you - you would need to deduce that.

Also, if the course is very popular and oversubscribed, and therefore helping to keep the department afloat financially, you might be tempted to turn a blind eye.

They're unlikely to tell you - you would need to deduce that.

The data would tell me. Along with feedback from students and external examiners. It's my job to have a forensic overview of the courses in my division.

Also, if the course is very popular and oversubscribed, and therefore helping to keep the department afloat financially, you might be tempted to turn a blind eye.

It's not that simple, a course that has poor graduate outcomes, poor student feedback and has been highlighted as problematic by an external examiner is not likely to be attracting high student numbers and is likely to be problematic in a number of ways.

@3oldladiesstuckinalavatory p.s. For example, look at ...

Georg Nees – Pioneer of Computer Art
One of the first to exhibit computer-generated plotter drawings (1965). Nees was a mathematician at Siemens. His artwork reflects geometry and algorithmic processes

LIA – Interactive Mathematical Animation
Using Processing (a coding environment), LIA crafts interactive digital animations where the motion of lines is governed by mathematical rules. For example, in WithoutTitle, moving your cursor alters the flow of countless lines.

Abstract Physics Art
Artists often use physics-inspired algorithms—like simulations of particle motion or wave dynamics—to produce vivid digital paintings. This type of conceptual art blends scientific visualization with creative expression, often resembling vibrant, swirling energy fields .

Gravitational‑Wave Visualizations
Physicists and artists collaborate to visualize phenomena like gravitational waves or cosmic structures. These artworks convert actual scientific data into imagery, making invisible patterns visible.

Hamid Naderi Yeganeh uses pure mathematical formulae—like trigonometric and exponential functions—to generate digital forms such as birds in flight, hearts, fractal patterns, and animations—all mathematically defined .

Andy Lomas (British) applies algorithmic morphology and mathematical programming to create organic, evolving 3D forms and stunning CGI—he’s won a Lumen Prize and his work is held by the V&A .

Jean‑Pierre Hébert merged computer science and art, developing physics-driven algorithmic pieces at the Kavli Institute for Theoretical Physics .

Helaman Ferguson, a mathematician who creates mathematically-inspired sculptures and digital art.

The publicly available data would group it with Computer Science so it’ll look good. Regardless of its actual outcomes. Not that they’d be known for several years if it’s new.

@JamesWebbSpaceTelescope The student with D grades in physics and maths is not BEng worthy. They should look at lower level apprenticeships.

There’s a complete misunderstanding about Engimeering too. To get a job at the best employers and consultancies, you need to be working towards professional qualifications beyond degree level. A degree means very little. It’s a starting point towards being a professional engineer. Some grads don’t want that and get related work in an engineering field but, like many professions, the qualified engineers are those who take the professional CPD route and associated work level competencies and even exams. We seem to think any old grad can design bridges (or similar) and that somehow engineering is purely practical. It’s not.

It depends on their other grades..They could get a civil engineering place at Birmingham City for 80 UCAS points (equivalent to 3C's) or probably less through clearing if they really do want to go to uni.

But apprenticeships are a solid option too. There are many level 3+ engineering apprenticeships and in choosing this route they are likely to have more secure future earning potential than if they end up with Bs and Cs in humanities subjects and a humanities degree from a mid-tier uni. They will also have no debt.

If they are going to do a level 3 apprenticeship (which are great, I’m not dismissing them in any way) they would be better doing that straight after level 2 qualifications (GCSEs). Doing badly at Alevels really doesn’t help anyone.

The majority of students going into physics with a 6 or below aren’t getting Cs they are getting D, E or Us.

Edited as posted too soon.

@inthisvehicle Yes but Brum City isn’t the place to do an engineering degree. My DH would not wsnt to employ them as the course is geared to CCC students. Just isn’t the same as the courses for AAA students. Apprenticeships are fine after A levels. It’s the old technician/hnc route. 16 year olds just are not mature enough and they have not got the maths!

According to UCAS, 70% of Bristol City graduates from this course were in paid employment in one of the most common types of civil engineering-related jobs 15 months after graduating.

This excludes those in part-time or unrelated jobs and focuses on “most relevant” roles.

.*I meant Birmingham City (not Bristol City) in my pp.

.. UCAS also says that the most common grades accepted for the Birmingham City Civil Engineering course are BCC and the lowest grades DDE.

That's not the full picture though, as its also possible to access the course via a foundation year. The grades accepted for that are as low as EEE.

@TizerorFizz your DH might not employ graduates of this course, but there are clearly many companies that do.

UCAS has only recently added the "Grades held by accepted students" to its website, so they do need to be flagged to parents and students who are researching courses. Hopefully teachers (not just careers advisors) are flagging them.

UCAS is publishing Government data, which is available at source on the discoveruni.gov.uk website. They only publish Graduate Outcomes data if the universities get sufficient responses to the official survey that is sent out 15 months after graduating.

@enoughtomakeasailorspairoftrousers you can see Government data for the course you asked about here but, as a pp said, it does seem to be generalised to Computing: https://discoveruni.gov.uk/course-details/10007160/ULH10F0001U/Full-time/#-6

Thank you this is really helpful.
Does anyone know if anywhere offers this advice for choosing GCSEs? The Cambridge page says ‘what you were doing before’ will be taken into account…

If anyone asks (and apart from my tutor group very few students do) at GCSEs go broad. This is a good time to have 1 maybe 2 subjects for ‘fun’ as they still have 8 other subjects. Look at the coursework load as this can be heavy eg Art needs a lot of time, and if possible deadlines so you don’t end up with 2 courseworks due at the same time.

Some of the newer subjects (psychology, business studies…) will have content repeated at Alevels, as the Alevels are designed to not need them. Can be a plus or a negative.

Since virtually all students at English schools will have to take the core subjects of maths, Eng x 2, science x 3, they won't have many options anyway so I wouldn't worry too much.

No uni requires the Ebacc, whatever schools tell you. It’s great to take an MFL and a humanity if the students enjoys those and will do well tho, as they support skills that will be useful later.

Otherwise what do they like? Having GCSEs in drama, PE, music, tech didn't stop my DC and others I know getting offers from elite unis. In reality as I say most students will have two or three choices max.

"If anyone asks (and apart from my tutor group very few students do) at GCSEs, go broad. This is a good time to have 1 maybe 2 subjects for ‘fun’ as they still have 8 other subjects. Look at the coursework load as this can be heavy eg Art needs a lot of time, and if possible deadlines so you don’t end up with 2 courseworks due at the same time."

Yep, I agree with this, so long as you have the ebacc subjects as a solid core (ideally including a language but I know not everyone finds MFL accessible).

I remember being a bit sceptical when my DC1 said he wanted to do Food Prep & Nutrition GCSE but it turned out to be a fantastic course. He will use the knowledge and skills for life. It was a lot of work - he had to practice fileting fish, deboning chicken, making meringue, etc - but at least we could eat the products, and he did also have to learn how to clear up after himself too (its a key part of the timed assessment). 🙂

Thank you all, that is reassuring. I just googled the Ebacc subjects which AI says are:

• English: Students need to take both English Language and English Literature GCSEs.
• Mathematics: A GCSE in Mathematics is required.
• ^^
• Sciences: Students can choose between Combined Science (2 GCSEs covering biology, chemistry, and physics) or three separate sciences (biology, chemistry, and physics). Computer science can also be counted as one of the sciences.
• ^^
• Humanities: Students need to choose either History or Geography.
• ^^
• Languages: Any ancient or modern foreign language GCSE counts towards the EBacc

If a student (with SEN) doesn’t do any language GCSE (with school permission) then does this have an effect on them at A Level or Degree selection?
Is it OK to not replace the language with something else, just use the study time to focus on the other subjects? Student would take history and three sciences, just have one fewer GCSE than everyone else. student wants to do some ‘fun’ GCSEs but if eg Art is time consuming I don’t think that’s the break from pressure that the student might be hoping for. Food prep not offered unfortunately.

Only about 40% of kids take all the Ebacc subjects, not many schools actually make it compulsory.

EBACC means absolutely nothing. MFL will be in an option block alongside other subjects so not doing it doesn’t reduce the total number. Regarding art - a lot of students find it low pressure - time is high but if it is something they enjoy then that can be a bonus. Other subjects to consider drama, DT, textiles, photography, PE (all good subjects) which students find offer an alternative approach.

@LovelyVase The Ebacc was introduced as means of encouraging a broad and balanced curriculum as a good foundation for life. Dropping the MFL component won't impact future prospects of going to uni, but dropping the humanities component might. For relatively academic students I'd encourage replacing the MFL with a second humanities subject rather than a vocational subject. But it obviously depends on how many option slots you have.

Schools don't normally let students drop MFL without replacing it with something else, but you'd need to talk to your own school about it.

@clary Music is academic. You can do a degree in it! Drama is a fantastic combo with English at GCSE and certainly great for confidence. However students don’t need 4 subjects like this.

I think the brightest students can do a MFL. Ones who are not all round bright, cannot.

Yeh @LovelyVase as others say, there is no requirement to do the ebacc in order to go to uni (or to do anything else tbh apart from obvs study the subjects in it further).

It's something that schools are measured by is all. I mean I do think it’s a good idea to do a range of GCSEs and obvs as MFL is my subject I am keen on that. But MFL in particular is not for everyone. Personally I would rather teach French to a keen but not especially able student than to an able student who wishes they were in a DT lesson, so I don’t agree that it's only for able students.

You need to check with your DC's school if they will be allowed to drop an option altogether, as obvs they would need to be supervised somewhere. It was possible at my DCs' school – the students who would struggle with nine GCSEs too eight and spent the extra time in the SEN hub working on core subjects.

@TizerorFizz I agree music is academic! You can also do a degree in drama, tech and PE. I'm not saying any of those subjects is not academic – just trying to make the point that a broad range of subjects does not impede uni acceptance. You don't have to have history, geog, French and German as your options to get a uni offer (thank goodness).

Schools are judged on A level results don’t forget. They aren’t going to push people into courses they are less likely to succeed in.