Candidates flying from overseas to sit super-selective grammar 11+

[PopcornPoppingInAPan]

A friend told me for one of the super super selectives in London that some candidates who live overseas had flown in to sit the 11+ exam. If successful the whole family was relocating here. (This is foreign nationals, rather than “ex-pat” British families living overseas.) The school has no priority area.

I wondered if anyone had heard this and whether it was credible or if it’s one of those internet rumours?

I was also wondering if it’s even possible to do this. Obviously families do relocate to the UK and assuming they and the kids have a right to reside then the kids will be entitled to a school place. But can you do it before you’ve moved here?

I guess if you can put down a relative’s address as your address for the purpose of sitting the exam and then submitting the CAF maybe that’s all you need. I wasn’t sure if LAs did any more checks on candidates who aren’t already on their books at state primary, IYSWIM.

I have heard of a family moving from Yorkshire when their DC got a place at the same super selective school so perhaps this is just an extension of that.

But you guys carry on. You will be the ones paying for this.

This sounds more like a Russian style comment.

oh god, I just can’t be arsed anymore.

You have a bee in your bonnet about grammars. Good for you, don’t use them then.

Because it creates even more of a ghetto effect in deprived areas to the point that doctors, counsellors, all types of professionals end up refusing to live there in the first place leading to a further deprivation. Grammars and private schools would be their choice if they went to such a place in the first place. Remove all choice, the area deteriorates even more.
There is no argument for abolition superselectives, they have no detrimental effect on comprehensives. That has been shown.

I think part of the problem with the system is the minority have choice - the vast majority don't. That is a big problem.

I’ve read all the similar studies on why mixed ability classes are good for the high achievers compared to streamed classes, but like all studies, they are 99% written and funded to suit an agenda. All I know is I suffered through mixed ability classes where the teacher had to spend more time on behavioural management than actual teaching. I’m not putting my kids in that position. Don’t make my choice for me, and I won't make yours for you.

I don’t use grammar schools at all, just as many people don’t use public services. However, they can still have opinions about the system

Not having a choice is less of an issue if you live in a posh area like Cambridge or Winchester because all schools are pretty good and the demographic is middle class. So remove choice everywhere people who can just flock to those kinds of places.
The reason the London Challenge worked is because it created choice for parents and teachers and gave academies independence where the head can choose what may work best for their particular demographic.

Oh yes, 95% of state-funded schools in this country have mixed-ability admissions, but that doesn’t mean every school has mixed-ability classes. Dismissing all of them by claiming it’s agenda-driven doesn’t make the research untrue. There is little evidence to suggest otherwise.

The reason the London Challenge worked is because it created choice for parents and teachers and gave academies independence

Academic independence does not permit admissions through the 11-plus exam, as this is specifically stated—except for existing grammar schools. So, if there are so many success stories across London comprehensive schools, why is getting rid of the 11-plus admissions such a big deal?

@dtnews- a lot of London schools now have aptitude tests up to 10 per cent so are partially selective. Most clued up parents going to “mixed ability” comprehensives with challenging demographics engineer for their kids to get into top set which is pretty much like grammar anyway.

Incorrect. You have clearly misinterpreted the concept of aptitude tests and banding. Schools using aptitude tests still have a mixed-ability intake by definition. They are not grammar schools in any way, shape, or form.

You have missed my point and seem to be talking largely about middle class wealthy families.

Parents are sold the illusion of choice if they can't afford private or their children don't get into a grammar school. Every year many families do not their first choice on national offers day. Just recently a number of threads on here have been about just that!

Any form of complicated admissions system and aptitude test attracts your middle class parent. Oldest trick in the book!

Students might be in the top set for maths but not for English, or vice versa. Meanwhile, they share the same class for arts, clubs, and PE. SETs can be changed per year or per term.. This structure is fundamentally different.

Another random thought, you clearly have no understanding

It’s by far random! It’s what many of my friends and colleagues do if they don’t want to pay for private school, move house or tutor.
The volatility of sets is what many parents complain of and the pressure to perform in tests to stay in good tests.
DS grammar doesn’t set until Year 10, they don’t need to!

It’s what many of my friends and colleagues do

Perhaps they understand the banding system better, simply prefer mixed-ability schools and dislike the concept of grammar schools or dislike the personal beliefs like yours.

Many grammar schools have sets, but how effective they are depends largely on how the school manages them

Where have I said they couldn’t handle SEN? I said having to take on more SEN and a wider range of abilities was perfectly achievable. Just so you know SEN is not just high achieving autistic pupils who can manage in mainstream class, it also includes children with learning disabilities who need specific targeted support out of class and lessons aimed at alternative qualifications.

Well for high achieving autistic children grammar schools can be an excellent option and very cheap for the Government. Some if forced into large noisy comprehensives with behaviour issues may well develop EBSA. It’s why some kids with that profile get into grammar schools on appeal and get adjustment in the selection process itself.

“Perhaps they understand the banding system better, simply prefer mixed-ability schools and dislike the concept of grammar schools or dislike the personal beliefs like yours”

No they very much like the concept of selection and understand it happens in comprehensives via top sets or in some, via streams - tends to be hush hush but all the parents know what they need to do.

No they very much like the concept of selection and understand it happens in comprehensives via top sets or in some, via streams - tends to be hush hush but all the parents know what they need to do.

It is clearly thay you don't understand the principle of aptitude test or banding, which is a method schools use to ensure they enroll a balanced mix of students across different ability levels.

It is fundamentally different from admissions based on the 11-plus exam.

The latest surveys are a bit outdated but they all suggest somewhere in the region of 25% of homeowners move purely to access a school catchment (these aren’t all permanent moves). The Independent, Guardian and DM all reported on this a few years back. I would imagine that number is even higher now, given the state of our education system and the VAT on school fees. You are right, of course, that personal experience is only anecdotal but I have lived in various parts of the UK and this has been commonplace in all of them (I’m also a teacher so I do actually ask kids where they come from). Obviously, it happens more in middle class areas than deprived areas.

I genuinely don’t know how they come to that conclusion. I’ve never met a secondary teacher in my life, in any type of school, myself included, who finds that to be their experience (there was one on a thread in here a while ago)!

A lot of teachers I personally know have chosen grammar schools for their children. Is this quite common? Is there any data on this? We know a lot of teachers in private schools send their kids there too and many go and work in specific private schools to send their own kids there, often with a discount as unaffordable otherwise.
Some grammars give preference to teaching staff in their oversubscription criteria.
I suspect this will be another aspect some will object to.

I suspect that for many many years children from middle class families have been supported at home, to make up for any disrupted teaching due to behavioural issues etc and staff shortages. So prima facie the data suggests similar GCSE achievement, the truth is far from that. That’s why the middle class parent seeks out the very “set” comprehensive or some even have proper streams.