Candidates flying from overseas to sit super-selective grammar 11+

[PopcornPoppingInAPan]

A friend told me for one of the super super selectives in London that some candidates who live overseas had flown in to sit the 11+ exam. If successful the whole family was relocating here. (This is foreign nationals, rather than “ex-pat” British families living overseas.) The school has no priority area.

I wondered if anyone had heard this and whether it was credible or if it’s one of those internet rumours?

I was also wondering if it’s even possible to do this. Obviously families do relocate to the UK and assuming they and the kids have a right to reside then the kids will be entitled to a school place. But can you do it before you’ve moved here?

I guess if you can put down a relative’s address as your address for the purpose of sitting the exam and then submitting the CAF maybe that’s all you need. I wasn’t sure if LAs did any more checks on candidates who aren’t already on their books at state primary, IYSWIM.

I have heard of a family moving from Yorkshire when their DC got a place at the same super selective school so perhaps this is just an extension of that.

Abolishing selective schools wouldn’t require much funding. Instead, eliminating the 11-plus exam for grammar schools could save taxpayers even more money. Additionally, Starmer has repeatedly expressed that he is not a supporter of selective education.

I bet he would be all for it if he was brining up his kids in an area of high deprivation and his only choice of school was a scum ridden hell hole.

Lots of people like Sir Keir, living in lovely areas, with their safe little middle class lives are opposed to selective schools. Must be lovely to be one of them.

I used to live in a lovely area of London. My eldest didn’t do 11+, because why travel for school when we lived in the area that people moved to for secondary schools. He went to one of the best state schools in London, it was literally on our doorstep.

So many other parents were opposed to Grammars (usually because they knew their children would have no hope of passing to be fair), opposed to private schools (becuase actually, despite the pretence, they wouldn’t be able to afford it, but l, shhhh, they had to pretend a moral objection instead). They would all shrivel up and die if they could see the people I live around now, and if they were here, their kids would have been tutored to fuck because their fake morals would have soon left them.

It’s all such bollocks.

Angela Rayner vocally, repeatly dismiss grammar schools

Fucks sake, she’s an absolute dipshit who would sell her own granny if she thought people might like her.

@Mydogisamassivetwat - you do not need to worry. Labour have fucked up so badly already they are all out of trump cards. Any other bad moves and there will be a 1970s style exodus bankrupting the country entirely. So nobody will dare mess with grammar schools any time soon, their hands are completely tired now. It is simply one last hoorah from the deluded wishful thinkers @Dtnews style.

wishful thinkers - @Araminta1003

I can understand your strong feelings about certain politicians.

I’ve noticed two contradictory opinions you suggesting that the middle class in London opposes grammar schools, and another wishful thinking poster claiming the opposite.

Let’s return to the fundamental research evidence, which suggest that grammar schools have no benefit on social mobility.

I never said they did. I don’t believe they do anyway.

A child doesn’t put themselves forward for the 11+ do they. It’s the parent. The parent has to a) know about it in the first place and b) be supportive enough to do it.

My argument is, why the hell should the children of those parents, who give enough of a shit about their children’s education to support them, help them learn, spend time helping them, be dragged down by other children who don’t give a shit?

And no, I’m not talking about nice areas. I’m talking about the massive areas of the country that are complete dives, but who, if they are lucky, might have grammars within commuting distance. My daughter doesn’t need her social mobility improving, as apart from having to live in a bleak little town now, she’s from a middle class family who help her out all we can.

The crux is, I don’t want her going to a school where teachers are too busy with bad behaviour to actually teach. Luckily, the closest grammar to us is one of the best in the country and still rated outstanding.

And yes, like I said, when I lived in London, I knew so many people opposed to grammar or private. But it was clear as day they most of the most vocal ones knew their children had no hope of passing an 11+ exam, and they were all fur coat an no knickers and couldn’t have afforded to go private. So they put on a massive pretence. Only it was okay, as they had the fall back of living in an area with excellent secondary schools.

FWIW, I have disdain for ALL political figures and parties, not just labour.

And yes, like I said, when I lived in London, I knew so many people opposed to grammar or private. But it was clear as day they most of the most vocal ones knew their children had no hope of passing an 11+ exam, and they were all fur coat an no knickers and couldn’t have afforded to go private. So they put on a massive pretence

As opposed to what you believe, many other bright children, and particularly their parents, dislike the concept of 11+ tutoring or the idea of grammar schools themselves, so they choose not to participate. Not because hey can't, more so about they don't like the idea and not want to be in thr rat race. Many of these children thrive in whichever schools they attend, and achieve better. Yes, many of them genuinely care about and support their children's education, but they avoid pointless 11-plus drills. When enough of them are present in comprehensive schools, it makes those schools successful.

London is a large city, but as some have pointed out earlier, grammar schools in London often show a concentration of specific ethnic groups. This choice appears to be influenced more by selfselect cultural factors than by a purely widespread natural intellectual basis in terms of who is able or who is not.

The criticism here is more about principles and beliefs, rather than your simplistic thinking along the lines of, "Oh, they do not participate, so they must be jealous or pretentious"

Nobody is offended by the idea of academic success, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that the path to achieving is the 11+ exams or grammar schools. These methods are likely not as effective or beneficial as you might believe.

No I don’t believe anything, I know it. These were people I knew. Bullshit is easy to see though and no one can gossip like a hoard of middle class, west London mums. Many were making excuses for their children not being as bright as they made out (although that was painfully obvious), or them not being as rich as they made out. Only takes them getting pissed and crying to a so called friend for word to spread fast among women who dislike each other. I’m just being honest about the absolute bullshit I saw for years on end dressed up as leftie socialist crap.

Look, if you dislike grammars, crack on. I don’t care what others believe in.

But I guarantee you, if you were faced with my local secondary schools for your children, you’d be flogging a kidney to make sure they didn’t go.

My daughter is extremely bright but she would not thrive at the local secondary. She would be dragged down to their level.

Well firstly we never tutored and secondly, I personally cannot be bothered with the politics over SETS that is very common in many top comprehensives in London. A lot of my friends complain about that aspect. And my friends with kids in private schools complain about neverending fee rises.
So let people choose what makes them happy!

Not sure why getting rid of grammars would be such a big deal? They would simply be banned from using academic ability as a selection criteria, or required to use banding. Teachers would have to adapt to a broader range of abilities and the school might have to change its subject choice offer and SEN provision. All perfectly achievable. Given it would work from the bottom up, the grammar ethos would remain for several years. There are over 4000 secondary schools in the England, only 163 are grammars; they don’t exist in most of the country.

Exactly. I don’t get the outrage over it at all.

If you don’t like the 11+ system, don’t put your kid in for it. It’s pretty simple.

But why ruin it for others?

Many were making excuses for their children not being as bright as they made out (although that was painfully obvious), or them not being as rich as they made out.

I believe some are like what you describe, but I know, many others are not.

But I guarantee you, if you were faced with my local secondary schools for your children, you’d be flogging a kidney to make sure they didn’t go.

It seems the main challenge is finding ways to uplift schools as you’ve described. Typically, such schools are predominantly secondary moderns in grammar counties. I’m sure there are some examples of success scattered here and there as well.

Because in some areas, like mine, the secondary schools are shit. No due to the schools, or the funding (deprived areas like mine actually have very good school funding), but because of the demographic of people who live in the area and drag the schools down with behaviour, students and parents. You can’t change that. But what you can do, is give people who don’t want to live that way the choice of giving their children a better chance of education without having classmates chucking chairs at teachers and disrupting classes.

Getting rid of grammar schools won’t help the children who are intent on not learning. It will just make the bright, engaged children dumb themselves down so they don’t get bullied (I see this in my professional capacity and it’s heartbreaking).

firstly we never tutored

Even if what you said is true (which I personally doubt, given your random and inconsistent points, perhaps you change the definition of tutor ), the vast majority of students require some form of tutoring to gain admission. This is a fact, and there’s no point in pretending otherwise.

Because there is no research evidence to suggest it is detrimental; in fact, the evidence points to the opposite.

I’m not in a grammar county.

There are a few scattered in nearby ish counties/closest city. Closest grammar is a half hour drive away, and it’s single sex.

You can’t uplift a school in a town filled with absolute scum who don’t value anything, let alone education.

So you are saying we need to keep grammars in those areas so bright kids can learn, but it is OK for those who are not so bright but still keen to learn to be thrown to the wolves?

I suppose it’s a unique situation: you find yourself stuck living in an area surrounded by people who you don’t seem to value much.

Why don’t you move?

No, it’s not okay. But what can you do when people couldn’t give two shits about thier children’s education? They could put them in for the 11+ as well if they wanted. They could sit with their children at home, supporting school work. They could work with the school to improve behaviour, but they don’t. They fight with the school. Christ, I was slapped by a parent once for daring to tell a parent that their child couldn’t keep swearing at the teaching staff.

We can’t at the moment. I’m quite ill still. We are trying to claw back after our lives fell apart.We will move in a few years, closer to the grammar dd has got into. But for now, we have to stay.

Why are you people so worried about those of us whose kids are bright, will do really well, are supported by us tax net contributors?
Do you know what? We cannot afford private school BECAUSE we pay so much tax as a family. But if we upped sticks to a tax haven like Dubai (and we have had job offers, very lucrative ones at that) - hold your breath - we could actually afford to send our DS back to school here and ETON COLLEGE no less. We did the Maths working it all out, with renting our London house out as non tax residence. This country is getting a damn good deal out of us and spending pitiful 5k on our DS so suck it up or lose more people and our DCs. We are not n the problem. The opposite is the case.

It’s not unique. There are so many parts of the country like this.

I was so blind to it when I was in my little bubble.