Candidates flying from overseas to sit super-selective grammar 11+

[PopcornPoppingInAPan]

A friend told me for one of the super super selectives in London that some candidates who live overseas had flown in to sit the 11+ exam. If successful the whole family was relocating here. (This is foreign nationals, rather than “ex-pat” British families living overseas.) The school has no priority area.

I wondered if anyone had heard this and whether it was credible or if it’s one of those internet rumours?

I was also wondering if it’s even possible to do this. Obviously families do relocate to the UK and assuming they and the kids have a right to reside then the kids will be entitled to a school place. But can you do it before you’ve moved here?

I guess if you can put down a relative’s address as your address for the purpose of sitting the exam and then submitting the CAF maybe that’s all you need. I wasn’t sure if LAs did any more checks on candidates who aren’t already on their books at state primary, IYSWIM.

I have heard of a family moving from Yorkshire when their DC got a place at the same super selective school so perhaps this is just an extension of that.

It depends on the school/ local borough. I know in Buckinghamshire you have to be living in the catchment and have severed all ties with previous address very soon after qualifying for a place.

We are in a neighbouring county with no full grammar, just two super selective and one other school with a super selective stream. The girls super selective would let anyone take the exam but you wouldn't be offered a place, however high you scored, unless you were in catchment at the time of the exam and the results. It was very strict - she had to take photo id verified by the head of her primary school.

The selective stream school was less exacting and if you passed and were offered a place you would have until x weeks before the start of the school year to move into catchment or otherwise lose the place. There were LOADS of girls from London and other areas taking the exam, I was gobsmacked.

What has it got to do with the primary school?

My dd was the only one from her primary to do the 11+ (it’s not a thing here despite grammars being 30-45 mins away). if I hadn’t told her school so she could have the day off, no one from her school would have known she’d even taken it (nowhere near London either, west mids). No catchment for the ones we applied, but I know there is for a couple of super selective Birmingham ones.

She did have to attach a passport photo to the form but that was all.

I can only speak for where I am, but it’s a deprived area and the parents here don’t have 11+ on their radar at all.

Which surprised me, as the only silver lining of having to move to this hellhole a few years ago, is that we have excellent grammar schools 30-45mins away. The secondary schools here are fucking dire.

There are a couple of other really bright kids in dds year who would have also passed the 11+ and got into one but it’s just not something people here do. One of the teachers at dds school has been the 35 years and said DD is the first child she’s known in the school to take it.

It’s definitely seen as a middle class thing to do, or even know about, so yes, dd is ultimately privileged that she has the background she does and not being lower income like most of her peers here, even though we live where we do now.

What I was saying is that when it comes to the competition of the most selective schools in London, money alone cannot buy you a place. DS has friends who have been tutored from an early age who did not get in. We just bought past papers and did one set of mock tests.
What he did do of his own accord is years and years of reading. And of course he was always doing well at school anyway. But he is no genius. Just bright and capable and fast and accurate with excellent vocabulary and good problem solving skills. Even if I were a single mum living in poverty, the outcome for DS would have been the same. I would have still applied and public transport to get there is free for us anyway.

Don't know, good question

Going on and on about how only rich tutored kids can get in, is not helpful. It is what puts poorer families off trying in the first place. Poor bright kids can get in if the parents are willing to engage with the process and do some work. It does not have to be years and years of work. In London, there are also FSM places requiring lower scores anyway and transport is largely free until 16 at least.

But if you were a single mum living in poverty, you probably wouldn’t have put him forward for the 11+

I know it’s an huge generalisation, Again, just speaking from my own lived experience of working and now living in a deprived area. if you have grown up in a deprived area, your family are all low income, you don’t usually have education on your radar.

“But if you were a single mum living in poverty, you probably wouldn’t have put him forward for the 11+”

That could have happened to me and would have been even more of a reason for me putting DS forward for the 11+!

He even came home from school with the familiarisation pack and a print out of the id form, although you can download the form from the councils website.
I know many other children over 2 borders take the exam too, no idea if their school sends them home with a form. The council did inform the school who was taking the exam. The catholic grammar did not and we didn't fill in an id form for that one.

There are always exceptions. But I now live across the road from one of the most notorious estates in the black county. My children go to school here. My husband and I both work in the education sector here. You would have been the exception to the rule.

If Nationality is such a big deal to you, don't send your kid to a selective grammar school.

British "ex-pats" ... LOL

No one in my area does 11+, so maybe that’s why.

The council certainly didn’t know - my dh is head of the department that would have known at our local council 😂

I feel they are doing families a disservice for not even mentioning it, but seriously, this is a place where parents smoke weed on the school run, so the head just looked at me like I was a bit dim for asking why they didn’t tell parents who didn’t know about it.

@Araminta1003 your insistence that your DS would have done the 11+ whatever the situation is exactly the privilege I'm talking about.
Having a parent who values education & has enough resources to put their kid into the exam is a prerequisite that many bright, academic children dont have.

It is relevant to the discussion - People getting all misty eyed about 'foreign children taking our DC places' can get in the sea when the whole system is rigged. After all, if just about 'certain brain power' proportionally they won't get in, right? It's all fair & good until it's not fair to them.

I don’t agree the whole system is rigged.

Anyone can put their child forward for the 11+

Some people don’t. I’ve had some shit comments from other parents here since the school places were announced on the 3rd. I’ve been called a stuck cow (not a new one to be fair), asked why I am sending dd to a “la di da” school.

They could have put their kids in for it too. You don’t have to pay for tutoring, you can do it yourself.

The people I live around - they are smoking weed on the school run, we can’t even have parent events like nativity plays as parents used to start fights. They aren’t going to put in any effort with thier children. They don’t value education at all and don’t instill it into their children.

That’s not a rigged system - that’s just fucking idiots. And to be honest, I don’t want my children going to the dire local secondary schools with their children to get dragged down, or overlooked as the teachers are too busy fire fighting awful behaviour- from children and parents.

Yes, my daughter is privileged not to be from here, to have educated parents who want her to do well in life. Why should she be dragged down because other parents here aren’t like us?

I feel shit that due to some awful circumstances we’ve eneded up here. The least we can do is give our children the best opportunity to get out.

At a super selective I worked they needed to bring in passports for ID.

Does it happen? Sure. But the families have to have a right to reside here either through dual citizenship, permanent residency or the parents being able to get visas that allow them to bring along children on one of the types of visas that don't prohibit enrolling in state-supported school (child student visas come with a restriction about this). The majority of parents who will be flying a student in to sit 11+ exams are dual-citizens or parents of dual-citizens even if they've never lived here. Most of the residency checks happen after the exams but parents can also rent a small apartment to use as an address in the meantime.

Is this an actual problem? No. The numbers are small and most are families who plan to have their children attend secondary in the UK - it's an incredibly logical point to time that move. They don't have an advantage on the exam, passports are usually required and photos are usually taken on exam day and added to the student files so there is not an epidemic of 10-year-old ringers being paid to sit exams for people.

There is no form of "gaming the system" with selectives that should even register on anyone's radar next to local middle and upper middle class families spending a fortune on years of private tutoring.

We didn't have anything stamped by our primary for HB.

HBS and other SS don't have postcode requirements, it's perfectly legal to apply from Yorkshire or wherever.

I was a single mum living in poverty, I put my DC forward for Tiffin and Latymer exams and they got in 🤷‍♀️

I have two DC. You sound creepy to remember internet strangers so well tbf.

Like I said, there will be exceptions. But honestly, I’d bet my house that no one from the estates I live near are putting any thought into their children’s education if they can’t even get it together not to have punch ups at nativity plays.

I know of many first gen immigrants from India, Poland, Syria, Ukraine, some were/are single mothers, some not just poor but absolutely destitute being refugees. Their children are doing "surprisingly" well y'know.

But no, it's not a typical representation of "can't be arsed" attitude.

I'm sure many children from single mother family perform surprisingly well, although majority of the nations you mentioned are likely not participating in the 11+ exam or attending super-selective grammar schools.