Kingsdale Foundation School

[WhatILoved]

What's so great about this school? I'm navigating choices and have been to visit this one we and others in the area. It is massively over subscribed and people really want their kids to go there. It feels huge. If I'm honest I didn't get a real feeling for it, probably hampered by fact I could only visit in a Saturday whilst other schools I've seen in action during the week. However whenever I ask local parents of older children there if they recommend it I very rarely get outstanding recommendations for it. I've had at worse "don't even think about sending your child there!" And at best " yes my kids have done really well but it's not all that"
I'd love to know therefore why it has waiting lists that go to infinity.

That sounds amazing

I'm in London. Kids at my kids primary school on FSM got reduced or subsidised violin or guitar lessons and there was a choir. So not nothing, but your kids school sounds exceptional

I don't think you can have an aptitude without having skill.

When they pick choristers for cathedral choirs, they don't expect them to sight sing in Latin... they do expect them to have a nice tone, be able to sing quite loudly and to have a very, very good ear. Those are skills even if they haven't been taught.

Any school that sets tests for entry is at least partly doing it to up the number of middle class kids they are taking. You can go along to an aptitude test without having had expensive music lessons or maths tutoring of course, and this is what the school will say when challenged, but the schools know what sort of parents are most likely to put their kids in for the test in the first place.

Yes this is true

OK then.

show up, and know about them. and have parents who will take you.

I don't get why you're arguing with me.

wow! that's impressive and she didn't get a scholarship?! I'm astounded.

For aptitude tests, you really shouldn't have to do masses of prep. that's the whole point of it supposedly being an aptitude test.

Glad she's fulfilling her ambitions now though!

She was obviously very unimpressive to them @mugboat... I still wonder what on earth happened on the day given her trajectory since.

Every time anyone tells me she's musical I still look a bit sceptical because it did make me think she must be completely tin eared.

They do test all the kids, but only to ensure they are in three even bands of achievements. So, your kid might do really badly, but get a place because there were fewer kids in that achievement band.

However having a proportion devoted to sucessful scholarship applicants within the bands does skew things somewhat, as does having any tests at all - even if the results don't matter. Middle class parents are more likely to send their darlings to be tested.

But if you look at the value added scores, it's clear they are teaching kids much better than the average state school.

It's all smoke and mirrors, IMO.

We looked at it for my eldest and didn't like it at all, although he ended up choosing it for sixth form. I have to say his time there did not change my original opinion.

I find the 'scholarships' elitist and disingenuous - I have yet to hear of one child who has been offered a music scholarship without formal lessons, and the offering for non-scholars, as presented by the head of music at the time, was laughable. The 'amazing' building was also, as far as I could tell, pretty much a fancy roof plonked on top of the old 1960s/70s school. (They have now completed an actual new building to accommodate the vast hordes of students - that school is freaking massive!!!)

I don't know if they tell prospective parents and students at the open events (they certainly didn't when we were looking), but all pupils are ranked, based on achievement and behaviour, which might do it for some people, but made me 😱 when I found out. And two years ago, when my son was there, they didn't have a full-time SENDCo, which wasn't presented as temporary... presumably despite it's size they didn't have much SEND to deal with? 🤔 🤷‍♀️ The SENDCo situation may have been rectified now, but it's not exactly ancient history!

To each their own, but my dyslexic, rule-abiding youngest will not be going there. He would get utterly lost and overlooked! He'll be going to a much smaller school that treats students as individuals.

If you want academic success, your kids are reasonably extroverted and you want 13:1 pupil:teacher ratio, it's a decent school.

It's not great for special needs or children who don't like rules.

I quite liked the central atrium and the pod.

They are high achieving but they are a bit up themselves.

Dadjoke I think this is a very good summing up thank you lol

I think their banding test is very dodgy. If it was done accurately, they would have a spread of high, low and middle prior attainers, but as you can see they don’t. Their results are quite good but only because they take mainly high attainers. My DD took the banding test 5 years ago and was put in one of the lowest bands, despite this Summer getting nearly all grade 9 and 8 at GCSE.

good sleuthing

Ah glad she did well. Yes that's mad!

I've heard some very bad things about that school. lots of low level disruption, kids walking out of classrooms etc

Thanks. She didn’t go to Kingsdale, I’ve realised I didn’t make that clear. I knew she was in the lowest band as we were trying to get in on the waiting list.

It isn’t necessarily mad re banding test because they only assess non verbal reasoning. I have one DC who is amazing at verbal reasoning but overthinks non verbal reasoning and although typically does extremely well academically, would probably not do that well in a test that is just non verbal reasoning.

This is excellent work, but how are their value-added scores so good if that's the case?

I don’t think they are, are they? Their progress score is barely above 0.

I’m talking about the scholarships. Most of the local schools do the banding so, while it does of course have the same benefit for all schools, it’s so ubiquitous that it’s a lost cause.

I should say I speak as the parent of a scholarship winner. But sadly one with SEN so the above posts apply.

Yes and we are at a primary near Kingsdale and the school has a woeful music offer. DC is in year 6 and they've only just started offering peri lessons. There's not even a choir.

It's selection by privilege, that's why I loathe it. Sure, those opportunities are in London, but very few are free and they all involve a significant investment of parental time and energy.

Banding tests are also a form of stealth selection but you're bloody stuck with them everywhere locally apart from Sydenham and FHB (which are both good schools and actually have a strong music offering as well).

I had the same report from a friend on sports as well! Mixed boys and girls totally dominated by the boys.

Their progress 8 is around national average. It's not 'good'. Their attainment scores are high but that's because of their selection policy. It makes me laugh they compare it to the Borough average when loads of the kids are from out of Borough, it's totally meaningless.

I looked here:

"A level value added score Top 8% nationwide"
I can't really find anything much more useful.

schoolopinion.co.uk/london/southwark/kingsdale-foundation-school-6320