Kingsdale Foundation School

[WhatILoved]

What's so great about this school? I'm navigating choices and have been to visit this one we and others in the area. It is massively over subscribed and people really want their kids to go there. It feels huge. If I'm honest I didn't get a real feeling for it, probably hampered by fact I could only visit in a Saturday whilst other schools I've seen in action during the week. However whenever I ask local parents of older children there if they recommend it I very rarely get outstanding recommendations for it. I've had at worse "don't even think about sending your child there!" And at best " yes my kids have done really well but it's not all that"
I'd love to know therefore why it has waiting lists that go to infinity.

Omfg that school and the hype around it. My kids are nearly finished at neighbouring secondary schools now and I know loads of families who have been through it. It is absolutely massive, if they are adding 40 kids then they must be up to a 12 form or so entry? Some families seem to like it, but I have never heard anyone love it.

DD is in Y11 there and it's been fantastic for her.

She's on a music scholarship and we had a range of options, state and private, through those. It was top of both DD and DH's lists after we'd viewed all the options.

She's been very happy there, the music is superb and the setting and staff mean that her very spiky profile has been supported. The extra curricular offer is also incredible.

It's not a school that would suit every child, I would say it's best for a confident child who is particularly good at something. The art, maths, sport and music is incredible, and the language offer also great (Spanish, French, German and Latin). The staff are also warm and friendly and in my experience very fast to respond. It's liberal leaning compared with many schools - no detentions for talking in the corridors etc.

It is huge - 435 in DD's year - but year groups don't mix and everything is staggered so it feels smaller. Staff definitely all know who my child is.

ETA: Homework is actually pretty minimal. DD seems to get it all done on the train home. Far less than any of my siblings' kids at other schools.

It's massively overhyped IMO. It's sought after because it's not easy to get into, and they have "scholarships" available which make it competative.

The scholarships claim to test aptitude but in fact test skill and experience.

My friend's son goes there and, whilst he has settled now, found the transition from primary really difficult because it is such a massive school.

I think this is a problem with all secondaries... at my daughter's school, the catchment isn't massive- everyone could walk but there's still loads of traffic and bad parking around the school. She walks btw.

That's good to hear a good review thank you.

Yes I agree to some extent that the music scholarship, though claiming to look for raw talent, is geared more towards those with pre-learnt skill. My child who is grade 3 piano came out of it upset saying he found it hard. The sport one was fine as tested general fitness.
I don't even know if you find out results of scholarship before application deadlines. But I guess it doesn't matter as it wouldn't get you a place any way. It does just feel like a bit of a marketing thing. Other schools like Norwood also offer bursary/scholarships so they are not alone in doing this.

@WhatILoved Norwood seems a nicer school (in my personal opinion......)

Oh yes definitely a nicer atmosphere to it

My daughter did the climbing one, and when she turned up, all the other kids had climbing gear. Definitely expecting them to have been to climbing lessons on a regular basis. She's an excellent climber and came out disheartened.

Her friend is a fantastic footballer and did the football trial but said they mixed in boys and girls... the coaches watching allowed 4 boys to dominate the game and the other players just ran around not doing much.

The school is too far away from us anyway, so we put it far down on our list.

I think, if I were local, the size would put me off. It's twice the size of other large comprehensives.

Yes you get the results of the music scholarship before you complete the CAF.
It indicates if your score is high enough to be pretty much guaranteed a place on offer day.

Having sat a lot of music scholarships, KFS has the most comprehensive one of any state school.

There is an MAT test, aural tests, opportunity to play 2 pieces on one or more instruments, mini-interview and option to do an additional sight-reading test.

To compare with a few other schools:
WLFS - 5 minute aural test.

Haberdashers - a long MAT test from which the top 80 are invited back for an interview, performance of 2 pieces and an aural test.

Camden Girls - a very long MAT test from which the top 50 are invited back. Top 2 MAT scores get automatic scholarship, another 8 (?) are awarded based on scores from performance and interview.

KFS give all applicants the chance to do everything. There is also likely to be a high correlation between aptitude and high skill level. DD was already G6/7 level in her first study and G3 in her second in Y6. She's now added another 3 instruments and was performing in public with one within 3 months of even picking it up for the first time. KFS is also one of the few that doesn't have an obvious preference for only classical or orchestral (unlike quite a few of the others).

Wow ohcrumbs she sounds musically gifted and it's great she has had the chance to excel at Kingsdale.

there's definitely a correlation btw aptitude and high skill level... but not all children have had the chance to learn several instruments from young age.

So there will be children with high aptitude and low/no skill level. It annoys me when these tests claim to be testing aptitude when they only choose children who have achieved certain grades on multiple instruments.

They should be more honest about it.

Oh my goodness mugboat I'll tell my child to just not worry at their specific one - maybe it will further cement our views. It's been an interesting experience looking at secondary schools and I've been mostly in awe at some of the work/children I've seen in the ones I've visited. Only a couple of schools I've said a definite no to, so I feel largely positive.

when I was looking around at the schools in my area (I am not really in your area, I am further SE than you I am guessing) I was really impressed with all the schools I saw. I am glad it's the same for you. It's still nerve wracking on offers day, then again on their first day of sch in Sept.

I am sure Kingsdale is a great fit for many children, I just have a bee in my bonnet about so-called aptitude-based scholarships, as you might be able to tell. And for us, it wouldn't be worth the trek as there are plenty of great schools closer by.

There are a ton of musically gifted children in London due to a lot of conservatoires, music trusts etc. and lots of orchestral opportunities too, some are free if you apply. Plus there are a ton of professional musicians living in London and their kids tend to be quite gifted too.

Except they don't.

DD doesn't take exams at all - we know what level she's playing at as her teachers have some students who do - so there was no sheaf of exam certificates, and she only offered her first study in the tests. Not sure she even mentioned the others.

Plenty of singers get full scholarships at KFS - something that you can reach a high standard in through church choirs, or just singing at home with YouTube... and doesn't require thousands spent on instruments.

The MAT I'm not sure you even can tutor for - DD had never done anything like it before sitting the first one in Y6.

Every part of the tests is scored and then the overall score is ranked. Only the top 10 or so get a guaranteed place on offer day, all the others are the lottery system - but it doubles your chances. Even if you get a place via the banding lottery, you will get the scholarship extras if you have scored high enough for a full or half scholarship.

You can also apply for a scholarship once you are in the school if you are interested.

The school have a huge music department - 3 GCSE sets - partly because that is a condition of the scholarship. Obviously the school want to ensure that they have children who are sufficiently interested to make music their priority once in the school.

A musically gifted child can learn to sing quite well from the Internet @mugboat and most state primaries do encourage singing at least. And you can get in on voice. A lot of our local primaries do Young Voices, for example.
Neither DH or I are musical and the way we found out all 4 of our DC are is by trying stuff for free at the local music trust. Now we did not qualify for the free lessons, but other kids in their classes did. There are opportunities around in London if you look into it.

This is definitely true and there are tons of musical gifted children who have no access at all to music lessons bar perhaps a term of group guitar lessons, funding of state primary schools being what it is.

Round my way there are tons of kids doing violin (or the really strategic ones trombone etc) to try to get music scholarships and then dropping it, ie middle class parents doing what they/we do, in trying to do the best by their kids, but that option just isn't open to everyone.

I do think it is good that there is a state school in the area committed to a great musical education, I just wish it was more accessible for all children

x posted with Ohcrumbs, that sounds better than I had thought re the offer when you are in the school

It's a shame many of them won't know they are muscially gifted though. This is something that parents have to be looking out for... and many won't be...or perhaps they will notice their child is musically gifted but not until the child is a bit older... to old to be skilled enough at any instruments to pass a secondary school musical aptitude/skill test.

They want the intake to be evenly distributed between ability bands each year, so they test everyone and take an even number from each quintile (perhaps quartile). The real test of a good school is the value-added school -how much they deliver on results based on the nature of the intake and the are in the top 7% country-wide. They also have excellent pupil to teacher ratios (13:1).

It's a large school, and quite impersonal. If you are focused on academic results it's a good choice. I've heard it's not so great if the children aren't rule followers.

They have a maths scholarship as well as half and full music scholarships.

maybe, though I found out I have an aptitude for music at age 41 when I started to learn the piano... I got to grade 3 in 18 months. From absolute beginner. I am a crap singer by the way, and so nothing was identified in my skills or abilities when I was a child.

Now I know what I am looking for, I am encouraging my own children to pick up and play instruments... one of them is similar and learning piano and clarinet very quickly... had I NOT decided to learn the piano myself, I would have not known I had this aptitude... nor would I have gone out of my way to look out for musical opportunities for my own children.

Yes, me too (I wish it was better funded for all children). Not much opportunities for most children these days, unless parents have the right knowledge.

I wasn't really talking about money, just opportunity and knowledge. and also saying that someone can have aptitude for something without having skill... :)

DD's state primary had a musician-in-residence and had huge amounts of music on offer (for free) across a range of instruments, plus choirs, sessions at the Globe and Southbank.

Outside London I think there may well be a deficit, but in London there is an incredible amount of free musical opportunities available in schools, at weekends. You just have to show up.

The Kingsdale music test doesn't always throw up what you expect. DD2 (15) is now very music-oriented - national youth choir, national children's orchestra, government funded place at specialist music school, etc etc.

However, in Year 6 when she applied, Kingsdale gave her a half scholarship for music, which wasn't enough to get her in.

She was about grade 5 on her first instrument (flute) then, and grade 3 on her second (cello). We hadn't prepped her for the aural tests as we aren't musical.

Should we have prepped her? Yes, probably. And we shouldn't have let her play her second study as it counted against her as less advanced.

We spent several years afterwards thinking she probably wasn't very musical, despite her enthusiasm, because of the lack of scholarship because we assumed that 'Kingsdale must know'. In fact, she still thinks she's a bit rubbish at music because 'Kingsdale didn't want me'...

I guess what I'm saying is no music test is perfect!