Detentions as a punishment

[SweatyLama]

I didn't grow up in the UK, but my children were born here. This year, my DS started secondary school for the first time, and I discovered that they have a system of punishments in place. Is this a common practice in all state schools in Britain? I really don't like this system ( I mean punishments) and find it degrading and outdated.

@SweatyLama - if you look on any school website, there will be a Behaviour Policy. This will give you the information about how each school implements rewards and sanctions to change/deal with behaviour.

Its shows understanding of the work.

And because if you don't show your working out the pupils lose marks in exams.

You can't seriously believe that a school wouldn't discipline (and ultimately dismiss if no improvement) a member of staff if they were late. Once because their car broke down or similar would be a raised eyebrow and not a problem but punctuality is absolutely crucial in schools for obvious reasons. As it is in almost every other job...

We only give break detentions if the student is late to school, they never lose their lunch either. However we do have a robust and clear detention system which parents are fully aware of before their child arrives. It's fair and transparent and as a result we get almost no kick back from families. I would add we don't sanction for no homework either, just reward those that do it and point out to the ones that don't that they are making things harder for themselves by not practicing at home. We have excellent homework completion rates as a result (we do have a homework club as well for those that need access to IT etc).

I would contact the learning support in the school. You say he has a diagnosis of ADHD so they should be able to work with him and you to get effective systems in place.

There is probably a homework timetable telling him/ you when it is due in. Look through emails for it or ask the school to send you another copy. Having that prominently displayed at home might help.

My dc were given lockers in the SEN department. One thing we did was to put a spare pencilcase set in the locker so if he did forget to bring a ruler to school then he could go and get it at breaktime. Similarly having a set at home so he didn't have to get the 'school' set out of his bag to do homework.

Sit down with him. Figure out the things that he is finding difficult and then think together and possibly involving the school about solutions to the issues. Or put them on here and teachers/parents can probably make suggestions.

You need to work with the school in the situation he is in now unless you plan to return to the culture in which you grew up, but presumably there are other factors driving you to remain here. Also there is no guarantee that your old school is still using the same approach. Schools in the UK are stricter now but that is partly because parents are more permissive which might be ok when you just have one or two children to manage but becomes chaotic if there are 30.

My dc need peace and order to focus effectively. They don't get that if the teacher is constantly stopping the class to deal with late comers, people forgetting things, messing around in class.

Re maths workings...

My brother could do a lot of Maths in his head. Make massive leaps. Wasn't a problem until his A levels, where it looked like he had got the correct answers, but not done the question, so was investigated for cheating. Fortunately found innocent of cheating (the school could produce lots of evidence of his previous work with the same leaps) but he ended up on antidepressants.

Its a good habit to get into.

But the OPs question... if he's struggling due to his ADHD contact the school.

I understand you are advocating for your child but what about the impact on the other kids in his class when he walks into lessons late? That disturbs the flow of the lesson and it disturbs other kids.
You are looking at this through the lens of only your child and not the teacher or other kids.
Not sure you understand what it's like to teach classes of teenagers either. That's when hormones kick in and disruptions increase, teachers and schools need a tool to manage that ie detention. They simply don't have the time or resources to adapt a sanction individually to each child depending on his/her needs.
You need to support your child to be on time for lessons and complete all homework. If not already getting support for his ADHD then this needs doing asap

This is where the problem is. You and the other students respected your education… you were late, so entered the classroom quietly and got on with the work.

What happens now… some pupils either don’t come to the lesson because they can’t be bothered or they come to the lesson late and cause disruption to the learning of others.

One example from this week: pupil arrives late, I do not challenge it at this point because I want them in the lesson, sat down and learning. However, this student purposefully sat in the wrong seat, refused to get pen out, refused to start the task, despite me trying to support 1-to-1. Then told me to F off 🤦‍♀️ This happens in nearly every lesson for this child, every day. This student is having multiple interventions to support them and to understand their behaviours but so far this isn’t having much of an impact. I am ensuring I am following all advice given on how to work with this student, including me having conversations with this student about how I can support them in my lesson, but again this isn’t having much of an impact. I have been teaching for years and this is becoming more and more common with more and more students.

Some parents are also refusing to engage with the school, even going to the extent of blocking the school’s phone number. Or you speak with the parent and they say ‘yeh, they’re like that at home and I don’t know what to do with them!’

I’m not saying detentions are the solution but I do understand that schools are trying to enforce boundaries and get the children to take responsibility for their own behaviour, as well as trying to understand the behaviours of these children and put support in place.

Well, the kid misses out on their club/activities too ... and have to deal with the annoyed parents.

It is disrespectful for students to be late for school.

Your example isn't relevant, if you're late for the plane you won't get on.

Part of school is learning how to follow the rules.

It is up to parents you to ensure they get there on time.

Hyperbole much?!

Please spend a week doing supply in a secondary and then report back OP

At my child's school they do their homework. Then as they leave, they hand it in, the teacher rips it up and they go home and re do it!

That's not true. Women experience hormonal and mood changes every month, but that doesn't stop them from making right decisions. I gave an example from my school, where there were no "sanctions" for being late, and we grew up into adults who don’t turn up late for work.

Kindly, OP, I think you should spend 5 minutes in your local comp at lesson changeover. I don’t know whether to roll my jaw from the ground or split my sides laughing at the thought that students would be horrified at the prospect of missing the start of a lesson or slipping in quietly

You are massively out of touch op

Nope - schools with clear and consistently applied discipline policies keep the kids safe and have more time for teaching.

also, detentions are optional, in that you can choose to do your homework and not mess around in class. DS2 is in Y13 and has managed not to get a single SIMS point since starting secondary. DS1 had plenty of interactions with the discipline system but it was well deserved. He was at a private school so the punishments had more exotic names and were things that state schools wouldn’t get away with.

It's not about treating them like criminals it's about catching up missed learning. We set detentions for students who are more than 5 mins later after the Bell with no acceptable reason e.g the spent 10 mins doing their make up in the loos rather than coming to my lesson. Or for those kids who repeatedly don't do homework. Or if they truant the whole lesson. How else will they catch up on that missed learning? Primary aged kids on the whole are much more cooperative and keen to please their teachers, they don't piss off to vape behind the swimming pool when they should be doing maths therefore they don't need the sanctions. Teenagers are a very different kettle of fish. If you've done a good job as a parent your child won't be getting detentions because they will follow the rules. If they are a bit characterful and rebellious then they will learn some important lessons about consequences which will prepare them for the workplace. And if they are neurodiverse which means the expectations are unattainable for them school should be making the right adjustments to support them e.g no sanctions for missed h/w or permission to be 5 mins late card for kids who need a movement break etc.

When I was in school I had lots of detentions, I just didn't go. The moment I learned their power over me was nothing but words and they couldn't physically stop me that was it for me. I'm now a mother of three with a respectable career and respect the law.

DS1’s school had a punishment of if the kids turned up late for anything they had to report to the school office in full uniform at 0730 for the next 3 days. By the end of his first half term he’d stopped being late.

Perhaps you sould try teaching in a secondary school, then you might decide you want to send your child to the lovely no-punishment school you attended. By the way I also come from and attended school outside the UK and there were also consequences for not complying. I wouldn't go as far as calling "detention" a punishment. Where was that school were children felt that missing the lesson was a punishment? Sounds like a very different culture where the whole of society values education more than here.

In all seriousness ask to volunteer in a secondary school. You may change your mind

We had worse detentions in the 90s and 00s in the UK.

I also lived in Luxembourg for a year and our school there had a “sin bin” so an actual room (large cupboard!) where you’d sit in silence, alone for 45 mins or so. Sometimes without windows.

The UK is much more lenient than that!

So kindly OP, you are being a bit silly :) plus, detentions can be a great time to talk candidly to a teacher about why the child forgot something/ behaved badly.

Thats my experience anyway!

Such children don't follow rules even when there are punishments in place. There’s always a reason if someone breaks the rules. On the roads, people exceed speed limits because they don’t feel the restrictions are justified. The same applies to school.

However, I find it hard to imagine a situation where a student would misbehave or cross boundaries with a teacher they respect and have a good relationship with. Teachers often don’t aim to earn respect, but instead try to force students to respect them. But that’s not how it works.

I’m not a teacher by profession, but I do have experience teachingteenns. And I’ve had students who disrupted lessons.

See what you're up against?!
It's horrendous how British teenagers are raised. No wonder they disengage from society.

There are behavioural expectations and consequences for breaking those. As there are on most countries education systems, both state and private.

Consequences help to deter poor behaviour which does not just impact the education of the child carrying out the behaviour, but all the other students too.

If you don't want your child in a setting with punishments, you'll have to find a way to home educate.

In answer to your question about why showing working is important, there are several reasons such as; showing you haven't just googled the answer or copied it from someone else and showing how you came to your answer so the teacher can check understanding and know where any mistakes are being made. Exam marks will be lost if working is not shown, so children need to have it as second nature to show it. It's also beneficial in an exam setting as if you get the answer wrong due to a call took error, but your working method is correct, you still get some marks .