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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Detentions as a punishment

507 replies

SweatyLama · 04/10/2024 20:40

I didn't grow up in the UK, but my children were born here. This year, my DS started secondary school for the first time, and I discovered that they have a system of punishments in place. Is this a common practice in all state schools in Britain? I really don't like this system ( I mean punishments) and find it degrading and outdated.

OP posts:
Original poster
SweatyLama · 11/10/2024 13:48

mugboat · 11/10/2024 13:25

it won't work for children inbetween because there is not the staff resourcing. As I and another poster pointed out, special schools have more staff and resources along with fewer children and smaller class sizes.

Now, I do think all state schools should have smaller class sizes. Smaller class sizes would improve behaviour, relieve pressure on teachers, make it easier for teachers to give out feedback etc...and investment like this would massively benefit society... but unfortunately, I don't think society is willing to pay for this.

Edited
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I absolutely agree with your conclusion. That's why I'm talking about it.

OP posts:
Sanguinello · 11/10/2024 13:56

I would like the school to look into each case and identify the reasons of bad behaviour/late arrival/so on. And find solutions to the problem with the student
Schools do all this. They put a great deal of time and effort into pastoral care for disadvantaged students. They don't only punish them.
Dd is well behaved and engaged but her dad died at the end of primary school and a bereavement trained TA met with her once a week to support her for a few years at secondary school. Kids who are struggling in other ways will get even more input. There are places they can go for support at lunchtime etc.

mugboat · 11/10/2024 14:02

SweatyLama · 11/10/2024 13:48

I absolutely agree with your conclusion. That's why I'm talking about it.

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I'd love this to happen but sadly the British tax paying public won't want to pay for this

Original poster
SweatyLama · 11/10/2024 14:02

Anonym00se · 11/10/2024 13:32

One school is primary for children who are, let’s not dress it up, extremely disturbed. If a child kicks off in class they are removed from the class and have 1-2-1 in a separate room where they can do what they want. It’s not a school that you can compare to the mainstream population. They don’t punish children because it would be likely to end badly. It’s a glorified day-prison. They are not expected to get ‘results’.

Grammar schools don’t have problems with behaviour because they’re predominantly middle-class, and parents usually are super-engaged in their children’s education. They are academic children who want to learn, are very competitive and achieve excellent results. They are also usually far more conservative and strict than Comps. Uniform policies are insane (at mine we had to have school-regulation everything, including a school scarf, a school apron for DT, school bag, school PE bag, a navy blue coat with no logos, etc). FSM numbers are extremely low (there were 2 girls in my year of 124 on FSM). This will also apply to private schools. They may have a detention policy but the reality is that it rarely happens because the children are so well-disciplined.

You need to look at Comprehensives/Secondary schools in areas with high crime, high unemployment, low GCSE results and the majority of children on FSM. The culture in these schools is one of not wanting to learn, and you’re bullied if you do. Short of removing all the disruptive children and allowing the rest to work, what is the answer? They cannot remove them, there isn’t enough staff to split the classes. By law they have to be at school receiving an education.

Without having parents on-side, teachers are on a hiding to nothing. Without sanctions, these feral kids would run amok.

With respect OP, you sound very naive about the complexities of British culture. You sound like you’re a very engaged mum so maybe you don’t understand that many parents are not like you.

In life there are rules. If you break the law, you’re arrested and charged. In the workplace, if you roll up late every day you’d be sacked. Children have to learn that they need to abide by these rules, and face consequences if they don’t. My own DS (now an adult) has Autism/ADHD and struggled at school with some things more than other NT children. But he had to learn to overcome these obstacles despite his disability. It was hard work but eventually he became more organised.

Sorry for waffling. My own belief is that we won’t improve things until parents are engaged early on. Surestart was starting to show results in this area 15 years ago, but unfortunately now we are back to square one since the centres were all closed down. I also think that teachers are bloody saints in very difficult circumstances.

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@Anonym00se
Without having parents on-side, teachers are on a hiding to nothing. Without sanctions, these feral kids would run amok.
Of course. We can't remove punishments and not change anything else. When removing sanctions, we need to train teachers how to deal with bad behavior, we need a lot of resources.
But the first thing we need is the desire to change something.

OP posts:
Original poster
SweatyLama · 11/10/2024 14:06

mugboat · 11/10/2024 14:02

I'd love this to happen but sadly the British tax paying public won't want to pay for this

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But we are saving on our future.

OP posts:
Original poster
SweatyLama · 11/10/2024 14:11

@mugboat
-failing to submit homework (they do the homework during the detention)
I think this point can be presented as a punishment, but also as help. It depends on how the teacher justifies it.

OP posts:
mugboat · 11/10/2024 14:27

SweatyLama · 11/10/2024 14:06

But we are saving on our future.

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You don't need to convince me. I 100% agree. To me, there's nothing more important than education.

It's the other tax payers you need to convince.

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