Detentions as a punishment

[SweatyLama]

I didn't grow up in the UK, but my children were born here. This year, my DS started secondary school for the first time, and I discovered that they have a system of punishments in place. Is this a common practice in all state schools in Britain? I really don't like this system ( I mean punishments) and find it degrading and outdated.

😂 I have taught him for over a year now and his sudden punctuality coincides with a new lateness policy and with him telling me that he is being punctual because of the new lateness policy.

I can assure you that he does not like maths more than he likes vaping in the toilets with his mates.

I don’t think I really understand what you’re saying here.

I was just saying primary schools DO do detention, after you said they don’t. And ask if you have any ideas for something to replace them. At no point did I say I don’t work hard on my behaviour management.

I agree with you, OP, that primary schools try, despite being under resourced and hugely over-stretched, to work with children to address their issues, whereas secondary schools all too often punish children for struggling.

I think there is too big a jump between primary school and secondary school. Personally, I don't think the secondary school environment is suitable for 11yos. The expectations are too much and the environment isn't nurturing enough. They should not be taught in the same school as 18yos, it's too big an age range. There was a lot to be said for the old middle school system which had 9-13yos taught separately.

A quick google informs me that the USSR has a split system of senior schools.

So I get the impression that everyone attended primary and then students could go to various specialist schools - some of which were special schools for students with disabilities, some of which were intended to prepare students for in or semi skilled work, some of which fed into universities.

I have spent time in China which has what sounds like a similar system. Culturally in China it is unheard of to verbally or otherwise challenge the teacher. So they do not have the behaviour issues that the U.K has.

However children still fall behind. They sit at the back of the (big - 40 or more) classroom and fall asleep and don't take any part.
Many others simply don't go.

The Chinese system is more complicated because not everyone is entitled to a state school place so many use cheap private schools rather than have their child not be educated.

I'm going to guess that you went to a pretty decent secondary school if you are in the UK now. Apologies if I am wrong. In countries that split children up at secondary schools the schools for high attainers always have better behaviour than the schools for low attainers.

Germany for example splits children at secondary level and children can go to grammar or technical school or what is essentially a secondary modern. The grammar school experience is very different to the technical school one.

The UK used to have this system but now we have comprehensive secondary schools that are for everyone. This, combined with the lack of respect in the UK for teachers, means that behaviour can be very bad.

This is a very different culture. I agree with others that you would benefit from watching one of the tv series where they have filmed in a real secondary school for a year.

@clary thanks for your massage. I want to comment
I am still not clear how you would deal with the student described by a PP who is as tall as a fully grown man, swearing and throwing the furniture. Do they not deserve any kind of sanction?
I'm certain that no one deserves punishment, especially children, even if they don’t behave as expected. Every bad behaviour has its reasons, and in an ideal world, there should be an adult who helps uncover those reasons and offers support. There are no inherently bad people – something or someone made them act in a way that causes harm to others. In rare cases, this may be innate, and such individuals should be isolated for society’s safety, but not punished, as they aren’t to blame for being born that way. This isn’t just a suggestion, but something a humane society should aspire to.

How can this be applied in schools? I don’t think it’s something that can be achieved overnight. Children with oppositional behaviour need support from specialists – psychologists and psychiatrists – who can also guide teachers on how to work with them. For most teenagers, all they need is to be treated with respect. Punishment isn’t about respect.

As for the teen in question, teachers shouldn’t be left to deal with him, especially if he’s aggressive – that’s dangerous. Special services (perhaps social care) should look into why the child is behaving this way. A teenager shouldn’t pose a risk to other students or teachers, but they should receive help in a specialised school. After all, they’ll soon be an adult and will be living amongst us.

What a load of shite

But you are paying for these courses presumably? It's one thing wasting your own money. Quite another thing wasting someone else's!

The legend about detention is just a cover 😎

public education of our children is not free, we pay taxes for it

At least one person understood me. Thank you.

I think I know this kid better than you.

In fact I think I know kids in general better than you.

Sorry to disappoint you

Op what do you think of this school?

I have nearly 30 years experience in secondary OP, you're talking utter nonsense

@SweatyLama and whenever you wake up from that dream of the land of OZ. There are horrific human beings that hurt children, kill and torture people with absolute no rational reason.

Discipline is simply consequences every person needs them especially in the teen years but hey you do you.

However you live in society which has agreed normalities and you are doing your son no favours by teaching him them. He is now at a disadvantage of not having consistent messages. I suggest you consider that in however you go forward.

I hate to break it to you but kids in 'specialised schools' still receive sanctions including detentions.

Children in happy families do not sit in the lobby. Those who sat in the lobby need a special approach. They were not interested in studying, they were interested in where to find money for alcohol or drugs. Our teachers would not be able to help them. Even giving detentions.

I know

Still waiting on your wonderful solutions op ?????

@Marblesbackagain
There are horrific human beings that hurt children, kill and torture people with absolute no rational reason.
If you study the history of even one criminal, you will see where it all began. There is always a painful past. It does not justify the actions of the criminal, but if society had helped this human earlier, when he needed help, he would not have done such horrific things.

After that:"What a load of shite"?
Your comments do not encourage communication with you. So sorry... i bunned you.

So you don't have a single solution ? Just excuses and criticisms of those who actually do the job ??

Eh bollox. I have an interest in crime and psychology and plenty of serial killers have perfectly normal backgrounds. If it was just so easy to identify the cause trust me society would. You really have an exceptional naive attitude .

Yes, it is such a ridiculous comment that I was thinking the same.

In real life we face natural consequences, not punishments from people hired to help us gain knowledge.