Secondary school appeal hearing

[Beizzyanddizzy]

Hi everyone,
I have an appeal hearing in Friday.

The school are arguing that they are oversubscribed so the usual arguments.

How can I prove that the school being oversubscribed has not impacted the quality of education. Their gcse results are above average.

Also they have provided me with only this year's PAN. Shall I ask for the last 5 years?

Apparently the suitability survey shows that the corridors are overcrowded. Can I request this?

What other arguments can I put forward for the school being oversubscribed

My sons suffers from anxiety and this school as a very good welfare department compared to the school he is currently attending. Is this a strong argument. They also have a better curriculum. I currently drive him tk school as he is anxious about taking public transport. This means I'm picking up my daughter 30 minutes early from nursery so I'm not late for him..the school I want is a 20 min walk.

Any advice appreciated as I'm desperate for him to get into this school.

You are unlikely to win it without evidence from the specialists ( doctors) But that still may not be a strong enough argument. Did you check any applications for expansion by the school, a permission planning?

How can I prove that the school being oversubscribed has not impacted the quality of education. Their gcse results are above average.
I don’t understand what you mean by this?
They’re over subscribed, by definition they don’t give places to everyone who applies.
If they did, it definitely would have an impact on the quality of education provided.
I don’t think having to be driven to school is a particularly strong argument at secondary level either, they’ll be expected to make their own way there.

Hi @Beizzyanddizzy

You need to show that the benefit to your child being at the school would be greater than the detriment to the current school population from admitting them.

You can't argue against them being oversubscribed - presumably they are. So you need to focus on what the school can offer that your child cannot access elsewhere.

How can I prove that the school being oversubscribed has not impacted the quality of education. Their gcse results are above average.

You don't need to prove this and of course you can't anyway.

What other arguments can I put forward for the school being oversubscribed

Again - it is (I presume) so you need to counter that argument from the schol with xyz reason why your son needs to go there.

Unfortunately I agree that the welfare support argument is weak unless you have a medical letter saying that this is the only school that can support your child as they need.

The "better curriculum" is also not relevant as it stands - as in, the panel will take the view that all secondary schools will provide an appropriate curriculum. But there might be something offered at the school that he has an interest or aptitude for - things like computing (GCSE or club), music (orchestra and he has clarinet lessons), German (and his aunt is German) - that kind of thing.

Logistics of him getting to school is not relevant either unfortunately. An 11yo is expected to make their own way, walking or by bus and train, to school - walking up to 3 miles and with transport paid for after that if certain conditions obtain.

Yes an application was putting December 2019 for 2 more classroom for September 2024 but I can't find if it's been approved

We have evidence as he has been having treatment since he was 4 years old

But do those doctors say “this specific school would help for these reasons” in writing?

The letter states that the school we want will help hom more than the school he is currently at.

Yes there were plans for September 2024 but I cannot find if it's been approved on the council's website. Will this help and how can I find out if permission was granted

When you say oversubscribed do you mean overfull? As in, they have taken more than their PAN in past years and still got good results in those years? If you can show this then that may help.

So I would ask what was their PAN in past few years and what actual number of pupils each year. If they use overcrowded corridors argument, ask have there been any safety incidents as a result.

Yes also ask about any plans to expand the building.

The anxiety argument may be a bit weak unless the medical letter specifically talks about public transport anxiety and this is the only school he could walk to. Or, if the letter refers to specific MH facilities that this school has that others don’t.

I've just found out that they expanded a few months ago with a 2 storey building for September 2024. Will this help? Do I ask about this at the hearing?

Hi, yes ask about that at the meeting . Build as strong an argument as you can and use all you have . Most important thing is that you convince the panel that your child will suffer if he doesn't go to this school , and provide as much evidence as you can.

Does it say HOW one school will help him better than another? What is his treatment for?

@Beizzyanddizzy if I got £400 (the cost to our school of each appeal) for every parent who thought their child's anxiety was a strong enough argument to win, I would have a cash cow for life. Anxiety is a very common condition and can be catered for by any school. Your target school would soon deteriorate if every local parent with a case similar to yours was able to push them over PAN.

"The letter states that the school we want will help hom more than the school he is currently at."

What is the rationale for that? If it just repeats something you told the doctor about the school, e.g. "it has a very good welfare department", then it won't have weight.

Yes, that may help. But also compare how many kids they accepted last year vs this year. If more than last year then it means they took into account the expansion

Have you seen their case? For overcrowding they will often state things like: only 30 PCs in the IT suite, only 30 lab stations etc as reasons why they cannot accommodate more in a class.

Your travel arrangements are irrelevant so you will need to focus on other issues.

Not an admissions expert and hopefully one will be along soon but it sounds like your reasons are

1. The school has a better welfare department
2. They have a better curriculum
3. DS can walk to school
4. DS has anxiety

You need to show that the appealed for school is of particular benefit to your child.
So for (1) all schools have pastoral care; does the appealed for school particuarly specialise in anxiety or offer anything different?
For (2) what areas of the curriculum specifically are of benefit to your DC and his interests/skills/background?
(3) is irrelevant as transport not considered
(4) Medical letter may help but only if it explains why the school would be of benefit and not simply "Child's mother says this school would be better".

When you say oversubscribed @Beizzyanddizzy it's not clear- do you mean overcrowded? Obviously it's oversubscribed as your DC doesn't have a place. But overcrowded is something different - yes does the school go into detail about what that means? And yes I think you need to find out whether because of the extra building it has now admitted more. If not what is the extra building being used for? For example if it is an extra science lab then the school's argument (say) about not having enough space for more DC to be in a lab might hold less weight.

Yes you need to ask for the actual size of year groups (ie number admitted) as well as PAN for the last few years.

The assessment of the overcrowding in the corridors sounds like the sort of word salad excuse schools like to deter parents with (along with banging on about how hard it is to win). Try asking for the number of accidents within the school in the last 5 years in which over-crowding has been a directly attributable cause. And ask what impact the new building has on expected levels of perceived overcrowding from the time the school will start using them.

You do however need to show exactly why this schools (uniquely or far above all others locally) will benefit your DC. The panel may find the school can admit more pupils, but there may be more appellants than the number they belief the school can cope with. So you need the strongest possible case for your DC

That he has a medical condition is unlikely to be sufficient in itself You need evidence of what additional support or other features your DC needs at school. So the current letter won't, on the face of it, carry much weight. You need greater clarity about what the condition means for schooling - might be worth getting input from current SENCO - primary schools don't generally get involved with secondary appeals, but this is one area where they might. You need to make it very clear what specifically this school offers that is needed by your DC and that the currently offered school does not provide.

Plus of course anything further about the school that would particularly benefit him (eg availability of a language that he already has demonstrable interest/proficiency in; particular sport, musical opportunity or other activity that your DS is talented in and could not develop readily elsewhere etc). You need evidence for each point - parental assertion carries only limited weight.

OP- I'm writing this as someone who recently successfully appealed to get my son into a certain secondary school because of anxiety. He's just started year 7 in the school we wanted.
First of all, it never occurred to me to argue against their case about the school being full, health and safety issues etc. Please don't do this! I don't think it's wise, and it will piss them off. I've never heard of anyone doing this. Our school had a very good case and listed many issues that would be caused by having too many pupils. Fine. We just accepted that. Who are we to try and undermine a health and safety report??
What we did (and what you must do) is explain why your child must get into that school. How the detriment to your child of not attending the school is greater than the detriment to the school of accepting him. I wrote a very long submission, detailing how his anxiety has impacted him since he started preschool aged 3. I explained how it had held him back academically and socially. I explained all the ways in which he struggled at school, coming home having meltdowns because he'd struggled each day etc.
Does your son have an older sibling or friends who'll be going to this school? One thing that really helped our case was explaining the importance of him going to the same school as his sibling and several close friends. I said this would be a real support for him and help to ease his anxiety, knowing he has friends nearby if he's struggling.
I had letters from his doctor and the specialists who'd been helping him, who all said he'd benefit from proximity to friends.
I also said that this school has a much calmer learning environment than the school he'd been allocated, which would help him. The school we wanted deals with bullying in a very robust way and I mentioned this too - as anxious kids are an easy target for bullies.
I explained how he'd struggle if he didn't get in. That he'd have no friends at the other school which would significantly increase his anxiety, no one to talk to at break times, no one to walk to school with. I explained how he didn't make friends easily like other children (my son has severe social anxiety, as well as general anxiety) and would end up in a downward spiral at the other school.
The appeal panel said we had a very strong case - this was down to our letters from the health care professionals and the heartfelt submission letter I wrote, detailing his struggles from day one of school.
We were successful. He's only been at the school a week and a half, but so far, so good.
Good luck, OP. I know exactly how you're feeling, and I wish you all the very best .
Please don't try and pick apart their case, but focus on explaining why your son needs to be there and how he'll suffer if he doesn't go there.

That’s interesting SallyWD. Did the school not have a sibling policy?

Re not challenging the school - I agree you can’t challenge expert health and safety reports but you can challenge the school’s statement about being unable to take extras if, for example, the school has taken extra children (over PAN) in prior years, or if the school has expanded physically recently but not upped its PAN since.

Ideally the appeal panel ought to ask these questions but you can if they don’t.

Don’t worry about pissing people off by asking questions, appellants are absolutely entitled to do this, as long as you’re polite.

I agree it's absolutely fine to question things but I wouldn't rubbish a health and safety report, for example. I do think the focus of your argument should be on your child and their wellbeing.
Our school doesn't have a sibling policy. We'll it does in a way but it's about number 10 on the list of criteria! It's a church of England school so the admissions policy is very much focused on faith and church attendance. We're not religious or church goers but we do think the school is the best in the area. It was a complete fluke my eldest got in.
So yes, we had the additional challenge of trying to get my son into a church of England school when we're not Christians but we were still successful.

You need to argue why it’s better for you to go to the school, not why others are worst.

The elevenplus.co.uk website has lots of good advice on appeals. Some of it is only relevant to the grammar school system, but there’s lots of useful info there also.

You need to provide evidence as well to back up your case.

You say he’s already in school. They may question why you didn’t apply to this school earlier. What’s changed? (Or has he only just started). Why didn’t you put thus school down first? Surely if you’re closer, it would be in your catchment.

You say he’s already in school. They may question why you didn’t apply to this school earlier. What’s changed? (Or has he only just started). Why didn’t you put thus school down first? Surely if you’re closer, it would be in your catchment.

I would imagine OP did put it first, but that there are too many children who have a sibling link and/or live less than a 20 minute walk away for them all to get a place.

I understand the OP to mean that the child is just starting year 7

I have to disagree with poster that said don't argue with the schools case. I mean obviously don't argue lol but if you can find info about extra buildings being built and the pan not increasing then use it .
I also won a secondary appeal in July, I had a strong personal case but it didn't hurt that I went armed with all the relevant numbers from LA admissions and the school had their numbers slightly wrong.

The school is oversubscribed so my son is on the waiting list and I have a hearing thus week.

Their case us that the corridors etc are crowded during class change over. Also teachers have more work to do.