Secondary school appeal hearing

[Beizzyanddizzy]

Hi everyone,
I have an appeal hearing in Friday.

The school are arguing that they are oversubscribed so the usual arguments.

How can I prove that the school being oversubscribed has not impacted the quality of education. Their gcse results are above average.

Also they have provided me with only this year's PAN. Shall I ask for the last 5 years?

Apparently the suitability survey shows that the corridors are overcrowded. Can I request this?

What other arguments can I put forward for the school being oversubscribed

My sons suffers from anxiety and this school as a very good welfare department compared to the school he is currently attending. Is this a strong argument. They also have a better curriculum. I currently drive him tk school as he is anxious about taking public transport. This means I'm picking up my daughter 30 minutes early from nursery so I'm not late for him..the school I want is a 20 min walk.

Any advice appreciated as I'm desperate for him to get into this school.

Pop in to what? Are these sessions staffed by specialists?

Going slightly against the grain here as others far more knowledgeable than me have advised on the appeal.

But if you win is it really in your sons best interests? He’s presumably been attending this other school for the last two weeks now, and apart from transport issues it doesn’t sound like he’s facing many issues there.

He’ll have done all the settling in lessons they organise at the start of term for year 7, gotten to know his classmates, teachers, the school and it’s structure.

Is it really to the benefit of your highly anxious son to change his school now? It sounds like you efforts would be better spent getting things in place to support him in his current school.

I wouldn't try to argue against their case, you need to argue why you want your child to go there and that his case outweighs the schools. If they have met PAN and can explain that they are at capacity then it's unlikely the panel would find they aren't full.

I can't remember the details of their bullying policy but I remember it included a zero tolerance to bullying, a lot of support for the victim, heavy discipline for those involved in bullying but also trying to understand what motivated it. Most importantly, they focus on stopping bullying from happening in the first place by looking out for signs and tensions between pupils. They also focus on creating an atmosphere of empathy and kindness.
We had a lot of anecdotal evidence relating to the two schools. We know lots of older kids at both schools. Also, my friend had worked at both schools as a teacher. She said behaviour standards were excellent at the school we wanted (I'll call it school A) because they had strict policies they actually followed. Staff and pupils all understood the behaviour policies and were on the same page. In the school we didn't want (school B), they had similar policies in place, but no one seemed to be aware of them or followed them. In the Oftsed report for school A, it mentioned that bullying was rare as the school had created an environment where bullying was not expected or tolerated and that children felt safe.
You're not supposed to criticise the school you don't want on your appeal, so I couldn't really say how I feared my son would be eaten alive there! But I just focused on all the good things about school A - bullying being rare, excellent behaviour, calm environment etc.

It isn’t so much being on the school’s side, as being realistic about what works in an appeal and what doesn’t.

The fact that the school got good GCSE results despite the corridors being busy and the teachers overworked doesn’t negate those points in the school’s case. The PP who suggested you ask if the crowding had led to accidents had a good point for you, if it hasn’t.

It doesn't matter because if PAN was the same every year then they had that GCSE space allocated and planned for 3-4 years within the old buildings

But she was just mentioning two new buildings.
OP needs to prove both: the individual needs supported by the medical evidence and when the school representative starts to argue that they are over PAN then she can raise the point of additional buildings .

I don’t follow your point?

Previous admission years have been already accomodated that is when they accepted certain amount of pupils they were prepared to absorb this number of kids. So regardless what are their plans of those buildings the GCSE group will leave another place to move to this building. And when they move they will make a space.

Oh sorry! I meant that the new classrooms might allow them to offer a new gcse subject altogther eg economics, psychology, but then each gcse option class would be fractionally smaller.

But my main reason for asking the question was to understand why OP thought the two new classrooms were for year 7.

The school cannot " defend" by saying: the two new classrooms are for year 10 and not 7. This is because they managed so far with kids year 8,9, 10. If they have new buildings then they have new space. To defend the school would need to prove that new space would need to be reflected by accepting more kids at the y7 or in year admission.

I was appealing and I lost as one of 33 appeals to that particular school. My case was valid. They acknowledged it. Yet many kids had a similar problem with the school trip. The school stated that they have no new buildings, expansion plans and cannot accommodate more kids even with the legitimate reason.

Just going to throw one more possible scenario onto the pile here…

One of our DC’s schools finished an addition last year, but the PAN hasn’t increased because that was only stage 1 of an improvements schedule and once the new building was completed renovations began on a section of the old one. And then when that section was renovated the next one was started. So the new building is still currently housing classes/spaces that had previously been in the old building and there’s no net increase in useable space yet. This is a fairly common way to expand and update old buildings.

improvements schedule and once the new building was completed renovations began on a section of the old one.

And that would be a very strong argument that school could raise if it can provide demolishion plans signed off by the council. But then the appealing person can ask why they have not planned further expansion given that the school is oversubscribed

They’re renovating some of the old building, not demolishing it?
The building will have more capacity when the renovation is complete, but not until then.

Yes, OP will obviously need more info.

I have no idea what your second sentence is supposed to mean. If a school’s existing building requires updates and they’re already oversubscribed, it’s utterly reasonable that the priority is completing those updates without having to decrease enrollment temporarily. Building an addition to house the classes/spaces displaced by renovations first is one way to do that. Then the addition can potentially be used to increase enrollment down the road once thr rolling renovations/improvements are completed. But that down the road increase doesn’t help OP’s appeal case, and oversubscribed schools aren’t under some obligation to expand capacity ASAP.

Again, this is just one possible reason why the PAN might not have increased by 2 class sizes this year even if the new building contains 2 new classrooms.

@AGoingConcern what I meant in the second sentence is that in appeal one can always ask: why is the new building only planned to replace old building and not planned for the larger size despite it seems that there is a space there for it.

During our appeal there was a lawyer who was hired by one of the 33 families. Our first hearing was a group session. These are exactly the question he asked- about buildings, permission plans, PAN, no of SEN , EHCP etc

I think you’re still misunderstanding the scenario I’m laying out, here, and I’m not sure how else to explain it.

It’s not replacing the old building, @TheGoldenGate
The occupants of the old part which is currently being renovated have been temporarily moved to the new building.
The school will only have increased capacity when the old parts have been renovated and the entire school is fully operational.

@TheGoldenGate "But then the appealing person can ask why they have not planned further expansion given that the school is oversubscribed"

Schools don't expand just because they are popular and oversubscribed. Even for academies, school expansion is usually planned in conversation with Local Authorities. If the OP looks on their LA website they may find the local School Place Planning Strategy.

Often in these situations there is another school a short distance away that is undersubscribed, which appellants are trying to avoid for various reasons.

In most areas, secondary school rolls will be falling over the next decade due to a drop in the birth rate.

Thank you, that makes it clearer

In most areas, secondary school rolls will be falling over the next decade due to a drop in the birth rate.
There will be less kids in private schools and more in state due to the rising cost of living and VAT. Refugees also add. I think it may be in the end similar situation

So below is copied from the council article. It has been approved and the building will be used October:

If approved, the addition, which will include classrooms, new toilets and storage from September 2024, will allow the school to cater for an additional 150 school places.

Extra places are much easier in groups of around 30. 1 extra can cause all sorts of issues around space in an existing cohort in a classroom e.g lab space - to employ extra teachers to create an extra class isn't cost effective for one child, so existing pupils have to squeeze in and where the detriment may be. Also you end up impacting classes which set, so in order to fit another child in, other pupils may need to move groups, which could impact the paper taken where foundation and higher exist.

You question their case.

Each appeal is unique as the needs of that cohort and school vary.

questions you are likely to be asked might be

What support your child presently had in school.
what discussions about his support needs have you had with the new school.
What is it about this school that attracts you.
Does the child have any mobility needs or is on the send register.

The school needs more space in class for additional staff based on the needs of that cohort. Behaviour needs, PP, EHCP, EAL, those on pathways and awaiting assessment, LAC, no access to public funds, the deprivation score of the school all give an indication of the issues in that class and school. Finding does not follow an appeal child and may have already been paid to the present school and some money may follow later. Any PP money for an additional child will take a year.

You need to ask questions about the cohort and if they have support.
It is unusual to have a TA in each class and it is usually specific to that child.

If you have ECT teachers in school they need additional support as they learn their trade. There may be additional hard to place children in each year which is often an extra 3? Per year based on the LA agreement.

You use the data provided to question their case. If they are above pan ask why. Previous successful appeals or additional EHCPs mean they had no choice to accept these children even if full.

What is the L.A. Averages for FSM, EAL, SEND and EHCPs and the schools for comparison. They may be full with easy children or full with children needing complex needs and medical needs. Ask questions this is the point of the appeal. This is not arguing but the expectation.

If the school is adding 150 places with the building, I would expect that to be one class per year for 5 years.

however, it does rather counter the crowded corridor point!