Secondary school appeal hearing

[Beizzyanddizzy]

Hi everyone,
I have an appeal hearing in Friday.

The school are arguing that they are oversubscribed so the usual arguments.

How can I prove that the school being oversubscribed has not impacted the quality of education. Their gcse results are above average.

Also they have provided me with only this year's PAN. Shall I ask for the last 5 years?

Apparently the suitability survey shows that the corridors are overcrowded. Can I request this?

What other arguments can I put forward for the school being oversubscribed

My sons suffers from anxiety and this school as a very good welfare department compared to the school he is currently attending. Is this a strong argument. They also have a better curriculum. I currently drive him tk school as he is anxious about taking public transport. This means I'm picking up my daughter 30 minutes early from nursery so I'm not late for him..the school I want is a 20 min walk.

Any advice appreciated as I'm desperate for him to get into this school.

Thank you. This is very hopeful. My son also suffers with social anxiety. I think it's hard because people hear the word "anxiety" but haven't a clue how severe it can be. My son was in hospital and suffered from mutism has a result.

Unfortunately we don't have too much medical evidence like yourself.

How did you get the school admission numbers. Tbh I don't trust their numbers. I found out today that the school has expanded and the new building which will include 2 classrooms is opening next week. But the admissions figures the school sent ne for Sept 2024 don't show that the PAN has increased

How, specifically? It’s hard to believe any gp would make such a sweeping statement.

I've found out the new building opens next week. It will be 2 classrooms for year 7. But the PAN hadnt increased.

That is an important argument

The PAN is the "Published" Admission Number and would have been set in stone in Feb 2023 when the 2024 admissions was formally determined. However, when circumstances change (such as the opening of a new building) schools are allowed to admit above PAN by clause 1.4 of the National Admissions Code. Therefore you need to know the actual number they admitted, which should be stated in their case.

Assuming they knew the school building was due to open, it is likely that they took that into account when planning staffing and student numbers for this academic year. In the unlikely event that it took everyone by surprise and opened early, that will add physical space, but not teaching capacity.

It seems a bit strange that they would have added two classrooms, both for year 7? To permanently increase the PAN by 30, a school eventually needs 5 new classrooms. So if they had two now, then I would have thought it was more likely that they were adding one class, keeping a room spare for next year’s larger entry and then planning more building. But as PP said, you need the number admitted vs PAN, not just PAN.

But what is your evidence from a specialist that this school will be better for him than the other school? All schools have 'welfare' departments of various kinds and children who suffer anxiety and have additional needs. `where is the evidence that says the school you want is better suited to him than the one he has bern allocated? Your view of whose deparment is better is not specialist evidence.

They have anxiety pop in sessions during break times, lunch and after school.

I was told yesterday by the cschool that the PAN for the last 10 years has been 240. In their case it states that 257 were admitted this year September 2024. No consideration for the new classroom? No increase in PAN.

This new building is a total secret. Articles online. Mums at school have confirmed its been done. Council website shows that planning permission was granted

I think it's OK to have a letter proving he has anxiety and then you argue why this school is better yourself.
For my son, we had a letter from his GP and the specialist both confirming he'd suffered anxiety, with dates etc and some info about his condition. One of the letters said he'd do better at a school with established friendships. Neither letter actually said anything about the school we wanted or why it would be better for my DS. I explained the reasons why, myself. We still won the appeal.
Just having a letter explaining his condition is still good. Some parents will lie at appeals, but you have proof of his anxiety.

257 admitted is 7 classes of 32 plus one of 33 (rather than 8 classes of 30)

What is the evidence that the two new classes are for year 7 rather than, say, an expanding 6th form or a new gcse subject?

We didn't have loads of medical evidence, a letter from the GP and a letter from the specialist team who'd been helping him at school (they specialised in social anxiety and selective mutism). Now I remember correctly, only one of these letters mentioned he'd do better at a school with friends. Neither mentioned the school we wanted or why it would be better.
So yes, my son also suffered with selective mutism (for years). He improved in year 5 and 6 and made friends. I couldn't say he still had severe selective mutism but his speech was still limited with teachers and kids he didn't know well (only giving one word answers, for example. Not having normal conversations. He could still become mute very occasionally when anxious). I explained all this in the appeal submission.
I found this study online that said that children with selective mutism are helped by being close to friends. How proximity to friends can help them speak to others they don't know. I submitted this with our appeal and they said it helped them understand the importance of keeping DS with his friends.
If your son has friends at the school you want, you could also submit the report. I can't send a link as it's a PDF, but you can Google it. Its title is "Quality of Peer Relationships Among Children with Selective Mutism." There were certain paragraphs that were very helpful, and I copied and pasted them into my submission.

If they have admitted 257, then they are using the additional space. As I said above, the PAN was set in stone 18 months ago, but the admission number is allowed to be higher than that by clause 1.4 of the admissions code.

It sounds like silly conspiracy theories are circulating. The building was not "secret" - there is planning info online.

257 is likely to be 9 tutor groups of 26-27, which is appropriate for a secondary school where teaching groups are usually different to tutor groups. It gives flexibility to vary class sizes up and down where needed, e.g. so they can have smaller groups for low attainers and bigger groups for higher attainers, or (in year 10/11) so they can have a small group for music and a big group for geography.

You need to get over the idea that schools try to limit numbers for their own convenience. That is naive. In the current financial climate, they want to pack as many numbers in as possible, but without compromising their teachers' wellbeing or the quality of education.

One more thing to add, don't be scared to show emotion at the meeting. I don't mean you should start crying to emotionally manipulate them! But you're not a robot. You've obviously been worrying about your son's anxiety for years, and you're worried now. It's OK to show that.
At our meeting, I remained composed, but my voice cracked a few times. The woman chairing the panel said that my appeal submission was excellent but to actually hear and see me sitting there as a worried mum, was very powerful. She could see how much I'd been fighting for my child, how much he'd struggled over the years and how much I wanted the best for him.

In the LA where I work, the argument that a school has a 'better welfare department' by a parent would not be helpful. The response from the panel would be my previous response.

@SallyWD i am glad you won your appeal but it’s not clear to me (as a reader of these boards but not an expert) that your arguments transpose over to OP.

I know you didn’t attack the school’s case but perhaps the health and safety case wasn’t that strong and the specific opinion from a doctor that being with friends/siblings would reduce the likelihood of a severe impact to a child was sufficient to be stronger. The panel member was nice and reassuring to you, but commitment and emotion wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) have been what won your case

Thank you. Yes we have letter dating back 7 years which also state is mutism.

Do you know if the 17 children admitted over PAN were admitted on appeal before the summer?

I hear what you're saying. OP's son sounds very similar to mine in terms of anxiety and selective mutism so I'm trying to explain how we won. It wasn't one thing that won our case but the big picture - 1) the lengthy submission I wrote detailing his struggles over the years and painting a very vivid picture of how awful life would be for him if he didn't get in 2) Letter from GP and anxiety specialist 3) academic paper on selective mutism and importance of proximity to friends 4) my own explanation of why this school would be better (friends, sibling, calmer environment, excellent record on bullying 5) the discussion we had at the appeal meeting.
All that put together, won the case.

Please stop wasting your time pursuing the oversubscribed angle.

My mum sat on appeals panels for years, and every year she'd come home sad that people didn't spend more time understanding the appeals process.

They could only award places according to a set of criteria which IIRC was all about the child's needs and whether that school was really the only school that could meet those needs.

If the appeal panel decided the child needed to go to that school, then whether it was oversubscribed or not was irrelevant - the school would just have to find a way to make it work.

As far as I know, the appeals panel had no authority to respond to accusations that the school isn't really oversubscribed. It's not what they're there for, and they have no way of acting on it.

Are you clear about the criteria the appeals panel are using to make decisions? Finding that out would be a much better use of your time IMO.

Yes, absolutely but I'm hoping OP has more to her case than just saying "the welfare department is better". That should be one part of it. I've outlined our case and the different arguments we used.

*If the appeal panel decided the child needed to go to that school, then whether it was oversubscribed or not was irrelevant - the school would just have to find a way to make it work.

As far as I know, the appeals panel had no authority to respond to accusations that the school isn't really oversubscribed. It's not what they're there for, and they have no way of acting on it.*

Unless I have misunderstood you, this is incorrect.

The test on appeal (assuming no admissions errors) is essentially whether the detriment to the child of not going to that school, outweighs the detriment to the school/other students of taking an extra child.

As such, the appeals panel absolutely does need to consider how full the school is and what problems it would cause the school to take another child, so they can perform this weighing up. It will listen to evidence on this from the school, ask questions about it and they should allow the appellant(s) to ask questions about it too.

These days most schools which face regular appeals are pretty good at showing the detriments - budgets and space are so tight now, and funding is pupil linked, so they all already tend to have their PAN at the max physically possible and can show why. So usually, attacking a school’s case about the detriments of taking another pupil is going to be a waste of everyone’s time.

But there may be some exceptions - eg if there has been a building expansion but intake hasn’t changed, or if there is a history of going over PAN and the school coping fine. In such instances it is fair to ask whether maybe the school can in fact manage another child without much detriment - not enough to outweigh the detriment to your child of not going there.

In the OP’s case it sounds like they have expanded the building but have also taken extra kids, so maybe the extra space is already accounted for. But it is absolutely fair to ask questions about this - in a non aggressive way, I certainly wouldn’t start talking about secret buildings!

Their case states thay teachers are overworked, crowded corridors and hallways. But their gcse results were great thus year

Thank you so much for this. Very helpful. I feel like most of the other posters are on the schools side.

You mentioned about this current school having a better bullying policy. What is a good bullying policy please. This is a big issue for us due to his anxiety.