2 modern languages for A levels

[clevud]

My daughter likes languages and has high marks (9). My question is, does a combination of 2 modern foreign languages facilitate access to some good 6th forms? Languages are under subscribed and in one North London 6th form we were told that she'd get a place very easily if she chose to study both. I wonder if that is true also for some other more prestigious 6th forms such as Woodhouse or Henrietta Barnett, provided she meets the criteria.

I'll tag a very knowledgeable poster to weigh in on it.

@clary as an MFL teacher/tutor, can you weigh in on this? The languages side and any insight into the schools mentioned?

We’ve just gone through sixth form applications. Nearly everybody who chose to take a language was offered a place instantly as they are so keen to fill places. My DD’s friend got a scholarship to a very prestigious private school on the back of applying to study 2 x languages. She’s a bright girl but probably wouldn’t have even been accepted without the languages.

@newmum1976 So useful. Could you please let me know the name of this school? Perhaps via PM?

In theory she has 3 languages as she's already done her Italian GCSE. She's now taking French and Spanish. I'm not too keen for her to go down the language route , I suspect she does it because it's easy for her and the bar is pretty low for GCSEs. I hope she is willing to add a third more challenging subject.

Being able to speak several languages is great but what is she going to do with them? Business? Translation work? Work for a say Spanish or French company? There is always a further hurdle to jump over. She could teach or work in travel. She needs to establish what direction she wants to go in with her languages as language is a service subject and not an end in itself. Also, so many people from other countries speak very fluent English. At best she really needs to live in the country for a good year and more. Which university is she thinking of applying to? I would go for a subject that includes say French and Business Studies or Economics.

I'd also be curious what she wants to do. AI and language apps are getting so good that jobs in interpretation and translation will be disappearing. Working in other countries post-Brexit looks less easy.

I speak a few languages and learn more when I travel but it's worth saying that languages like Italian, French and Spanish are so common with native and dual-language speakers that it may not be very useful.

A very close friend of mine did languages at uni and he is making FAR more money than any of us! He does marketing for a massive multinational and his languages mean he is hugely in demand. I have languages at A level and really enjoyed them.

Ah bless you @CandleBlowerOuter

I'm sorry @clevud I don't know any details about the schools you mention - I gather they are very competitive for sixth form? That's not an issue at all round my way where every student who gets the GCSE grades or even is close will be welcomed into sixth form. What form does the competitiveness take – high GCSE requirement?

I would say it’s fantastic that she has access to two (in fact three) MFL at GCSE and wishes to continue into A level. MFL A level is very challenging, make no mistake. I infer your DD is a native speaker (of Italian?) which is of course a bonus; but even for a native speaker of French, French A level is a challenge requiring hard work, and a top grade is not a given.

Students need to write essays in target language about a film and a book, using excellent language and also good analysis. They also learn about a range of topical and political issues such as immigration and strikes, and have to be able to speak and write about these – so even a native speaker cannot just rock up and do it.

I'm not sure tho that a school would offer places based on whether the A level subjects were challenging; but yes, they would be keen to offer a place if they wanted to run that language A level, as they are notoriously under subscribed, sadly.

Do check that the schools you are interested in will offer the MFL you want. DD's sixth-form cohort at her (non-prestigious I must admit) state secondary was offered only French; DS2's year at the same school offered only German (and it was the only state sixth form setting in the city, out of at least six, to offer German A level that year). And I don't think it is alone in this (tho I suspect it is a different story in the highly sought-after London schools you mention)

Those who are saying - what will she do with her MFL? I mean you could say the same about history or English lit or philosophy or any number of other degrees, if that's where she is going.

Yes translation work is drying up, but it was thin on the ground anyway. Most of my cohort at uni went into other fields not so directly related to MFL. As did I! I only turned to teaching later in life. I do believe that learning languages really opens your mind and eyes to other cultures in a way that is very important. And the ability to learn one language means you can pick up others as needed.

My main day job is now in a different field but I actually find I use my language skills frequently. Just bc someone is not a translator doesn't mean those skills are wasted. And I bet most history graduates don't find they need to directly use that knowledge on a daily basis.

I hope she is willing to add a third more challenging subject.

MFL A-levels are challenging! No one is looking at 2 A-level languages and thinking “what a slacker, easy option”.

Would she consider learning Chinese or Russian? GCHQ may well be interested in those.

People who study languages develop skills thata re useful for many careers and language graduates have low unemployment rates. But I would just say go for it if that i what she loves!

Looking further down the line, MFL offers for good unis are lower than for more popular subjects. Both my DSs did two languages and it has served them well. Expensive business though, that time abroad.

This. My a-level French was hardcore

@clevud

When she is looking at University later on, OP, I would suggest considering something like this in combination with her preferred A Level language.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/modern-languages/modern-languages%3A-russian

I never knew schools were allowed to cherry pick just to get bums on seats for certain subjects.

Exactly this. Languages are well-respected, academic subjects.

I agree with the people who say the usual languages (French, Spanish, Italian, German) in themselves are not that useful unless you want to teach, work in the tourism/travel industry or want to work in a specific country or industry where another language would be a plus (French and Italian are useful if you want to work in fashion for example).

Although if your daughter something a bit different like Russian, Chinese or Arabic she might have better opportunities. Add that with cybersecurity/computer science degree and she could do well!

I speak two languages fluently (English and French) and basic Italian. I have never found that useful in the workplace.

I did two languages at A Level (and uni). I now use one of the two for work (in a field not directly languagey) and the other in my freelance work. There is a lot of demand for Spanish particularly; yes, Brexit has changed things somewhat, but there’s still most of Latin America, where speaking the language is still enormously useful. She should go for it if that’s what she enjoys… but beware of thinking that MFL A Levels aren’t challenging - they absolutely are!!

Sixth forms will have so many spaces in the class room for each subject. They will have lots of demand from bright students for popular subjects like maths, history and economics, but may not have full classrooms for various modern languages, classics, history of art etc. All of which are rigorous subjects and ones the school may want to continue to offer.

It is impossible to argue that a good mathematician is somehow better than a good linguist, so "cherry picking" does not come into it. However there are differences in demand, and it is more than possible that a good student applying for a very competitive sixth form will have a better chance if they want to study, say, Ancient Greek, Russian, and geography, rather than lab subjects.

It's a long time ago, but I did two languages at Alevel with economics as my third. I also did a languages and economics degree. Most of the people from my course did not go on jobs specifically using their languages, but the languages were used occasionally and seen as a benefit.

So studying 2 mfl for GcSe would be an easier way to get in to a good 6th form?

For everyone saying what will she do with languages, I did French and German GCSE then A Level, did a Russian GCSE on the side in sixth form, decided I liked that one the best so took it on to uni. After uni I lived in Russia for a bit (this was nearly 20years ago) then came back and joined the civil service. The security services weren't as bothered about russian speakers back then (although im sure Russian speakers are highly in demand now) but from my cohort at uni, a few went into military intelligence, some went into HR / marketing with international companies, some into finance, I joined a CS dept that engages overseas a lot so even though I didn't use my Russian loads, having that international degree / outlook definitely helped me at interview. Quite a few on my Russian degree were doing it as a minor and as a beginner, alongside eg a French / German / Spanish main degree.

I mean there are so many variables.

First, can you take two MFL for GCSE? It's increasingly unlikely.
Second, only if you go on to take them for A level; DS2 has GCSE Spanish but A level would have not been a good idea.
Thirdly, the Op is asking about specific competitive sixth forms. Where I live, and I suspect in many places, you can get into sixth forms as long as your GCSE grades overall are good enough (and this varies too from 5s plus 6 in chosen subjects to at least 6 grade 7s). The subjects you wish to study don't make very much difference at all tbh unless there are timetabling issues. I've not heard of a lot of students being told there is no room for them in maths or psychology oh but if they want to take German, right this way. Tho I suppose there are some.

It would for the sixth form Grammars in the South East, if that was an A level choice. Loads of children were turned away for maths and economics, but plenty of space for anybody wanting to do a language A level.