Yearly warning not to take A-level maths with less than a 7 at GCSE

[noblegiraffe]

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day is coming.

So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a strong correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder.

There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications.

If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade.

This data is from 2019 because obviously more recent data has been screwed up by covid.

If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography).

If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

I'd be surprised if the school would be happy with a student taking A level physics with a 5, unless massive mitigating circumstances. The other problem is that maths and physics sort of go hand in hand. It's hard to be good at physics if not strong in maths.

What is his longer term plan, in terms of Uni or jobs?

As pp have said, there are students who buck the trend and get a better grade at A level than at GCSE but it's far more common to go in the other direction.

Dd1 is in y13. She did GCSE in only one year due to being anorexic and in hospital and ill at home for y10. She is neurodiverse. She is doing maths in sixth form and so far her maths prediction is a ‘C’. While school acknowledge teaching has been tricky (maths teacher received a cancer diagnosis), I also wonder if she missed some fundumentals because she missed a year of school. Her MH is better, but not great.

dd2 got a 9 today for maths and an 8 for FM. She will do this for sixth form also. She is also neurodiverse. I hope she finds maths easier than dd1. Even a high mark at GCSE is no guarentee.

btw - dd2 5 marks of a 9 in FM and school advised a remark - any advice on this one? Nothing ventured, nothing gained, I guess!

@noblegiraffe - I've seen your table a few times and mentioned it to my son this morning. He did iGCSE (if that makes any odds one way or the other) and got a 7 but 4 marks off an 8.

He's definitely only really "found" the concept of working at school recently and is really keen on doing maths. Does it sound like a stupid idea? Thank you.

Also worth noting for those with a 6 in maths -
It has ruled out LOTS of Management and Business degrees for my child at top Unis who has A* x 3 predictions (not maths) because they only got a 6 at GCSE maths (rest 8s and 9s)

Another question if @noblegiraffe or anyone else knowledgeable would be kind enough to answer.
DS is considering Psychology, Physics and Business or Economics for A level - would a 6 in Maths prevent him doing those? He will be going to 6th form college as his school doesnt have a 6th form. I knwo they are maths heavy but DS lijes subjects he can apply, so just maths not so much but maths he is using for something else he prefers and is better at.

Thank you. Ds2 did combined science so he didn't get separate grades for the different sciences. He is good at physics but struggles with biology and is average at chemistry. He got 5-4 in science and 6 in maths. He doesn't have any mitigating circumstances unless you count being homeless for the first 2 terms of year 10 and being on the autism assessment pathway but not getting as far as an assessment yet. He had a meltdown during one of the music exams but still managed to pass that one.

@Hoppinggreen from experience the college will advise you on the best subjects to take…do consider though some colleges will happily let you choose even tough they may ‘know’ the course will be tough for the student, then they will potentially suggest next year retaking year 12. That is a risk for the student so maybe worth listening to some of the information on here. Physics is a very hard A level and a good Maths and Physics GCSE grade really does matter.

@elliejjtiny I wouldn't advise physics A level with 4-5 in combined science. Is there any way of getting the breakdown tho - is he much stronger in physics than the other two? Coupled with a 6 in maths it's a tough ask.

Would he consider sociology or psychology? Might play to his strengths in geography/social sciences.

@Hoppinggreen physics A level without taking maths A level is unusual and not advised by a lot of schools IME. What did he get in physics?

Grade 6 in Maths is fine for Economics generally @Hoppinggreen. In fact being of a more practical bent might help him. Many's the top mathematician I have to re-teach percentage change to in Economics class in September of year 12 😂.

If he's keen, and he's now realising the effort he needs to put in, it could be fine. If he's aware of the odds in that table, he will hopefully understand the need to work hard to make sure he beats the odds. (That should start now - the school may set some bridging work, but if not, look for bridging work on other sixth forms' websites, or just work through GCSE topics again, especially algebra.)

I was rather worried to discover that my first A-level set included someone who had got a C at GCSE. He was a model student at A-level, making sure he understood everything, and asking for help as soon as he didn't. He got a B at A-level (before Astar existed). The outgoing head of maths had told him that he was not doing A-level maths while she was in charge - reading between the lines, he had been the class clown, and possibly needed the change of teacher/peer group as well as attitude in order to get down to work.

Thank you both.
DS isn't keen on Maths, he is good enough at it (set 2) and probably could be better if he worked hard BUT he is unlikely to.
I actually don't think Maths A level is a good option for him but DH thinks it is as he loved it but as I keep pointing out DS (and DD) are not us and have different preferences, plus things have changed in 30 odd years.
As I said before I will ask DS Maths teacher (who is great) and tell DH that he doesn't advise it (assuming he doesn't)

He is only in Y12 now (from September) but is predicted an 8 in Physics, he really likes it. As I said before he is better at Maths where its applied than in just Maths

My ds has just got a 7 for maths and determined to do Maths and Further Maths. No bridging work as no school sixth form.

I have bigger worries about his third subject and which of two colleges he will go to, as he got a 4 for English language.

FM with a 7 unless there is some massive reason for it (and it ought to have been an 8 or 9) is not a good idea tbh. Ds got 8 and changed his mind about FM (and was glad he did).

Is FM one of three, or is it a fourth and thus easily dropped?

One of the three.

Tbh I'd rather he didn't, but he is determined to do so.

He would really struggle to pick a 3rd subject, if he dropped FM and couldn't do the other course he wants.

Gah. I'm at work trying to work this all out in my head,

this thread is worrying me… DD has got an 8 (3 marks off a 9) in Maths and a low 7 in Further Maths. Presume she should be okay?

It’s not really about being ok… more a warning about likely outcomes and volume of work needed.

Ds2 got an 8 in 2019 and found A level a challenge. He came out with a B; his teachers were honest and said an A was possible but he needed to work harder. But all he needed was a B so he focused on his degree choice instead of maths.

Someone with an 8 in maths should be fine to take A level; if they work hard, all grades are within their reach.

I really want this info for the sciences. Is it anywhere?

Please please PLEASE get him to start with a 4th subject if doing further maths. We had a kid this year who was adamant about starting with three who really couldn’t cope with FM who had to restart Y12 in the end.

So she's done very well in maths - if she'd not done FM you wouldn't be worried, would you? Having done the FM, she should be in a better position starting A level than those who've not done it. As someone said upthread (might have been the OP) gcse fm is of limited predictive use because of the widely varying rigour of its teaching - often just one 'twilight' class a week and heavy reliance on the diligence of the students, I think.

Only the more general government transition matrices I posted earlier.

So long as he knows he needs to hit the ground running and do lots of work outside of lessons (not just homework) then he can give it a go - I wouldn’t say something with a high 7 shouldn’t take it, just that they should be prepared to work at it from the start.

Just reposting the bridging work for students whose school hasn’t set any!

I'd guess it's harder to get such a clean set of stats for the sciences because of double science vs single subjects