Yearly warning not to take A-level maths with less than a 7 at GCSE

[noblegiraffe]

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day is coming.

So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a strong correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder.

There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications.

If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade.

This data is from 2019 because obviously more recent data has been screwed up by covid.

If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography).

If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

Don't forget lots of students don't take A-levels! The cohort of students who take A-levels is going to be more academic than the general population to start with.

At my school we now require a grade 8 to do maths A-level. This is as much to emphasise the seriousness that they must take maths A-level as any other reason. It also means that those in year 11 who want to do maths often have to step up!

I think maths A-level can be done on a grade 7, but it will require a huge amount of work and often a lot of extra support at school. Some schools can provide that support, we don’t really have enough timetabled hours for A-level to help those that are really struggling.

Even with a grade 8, the amount of work needed comes as a surprise to students. We give our new year 12s an algebra test in the second week and make it a bit spicy to scare them. I will read my classes the Algebra Riot Act, at which point a few people will realise maths isn’t really for them and change to psychology or geography or something.

I know this sounds a bit cruel, but I think it is kinder to students to be honest with them! The students who put the work in, do end up really loving it though!

I wouldn't recommend students taking Maths A level unless achieved an 8 of above at GCSE or 7 if very good reason didn't do better eg bereavement, no teacher etc. I've seen too many students get 2 A grades at A levels in other subjects and then a D or even E in Maths. It often means they don't get first choice uni.

interesting comment about doing the summer course work.

dd2 is waiting for GCSE results. She is autistic and found the exams season a nightmare. She struggled enormously with so many subjects and revision.

predicted 8 in GCSE maths, was doing the further maths classes for a while, but it clashed with something else that they insisted she did (support for other subjects)
She is unlikely to get above a 7 (and may even get a 6) due to the general difficulty of the exam season.

She's done the bridging summer work for A level maths, and said it was all ridiculously easy.

It is hard to know if she should go for maths or not, but it is her natural subject, her happy place.

Either a stroke of luck or she's a hard worker. This won't be the case for many!

She’s a hard worker. She worked really hard for her GCSEs too . Like I said upthread, I put it down to her being a late developer.

Further maths GCSE wouldn't be a great predictor of A-level maths grade I think because there is such a variation in how it is delivered. Some schools seem to teach it properly, others just seem to enter kids and hope for the best with a bit of lunchtime coaching.

Yes, it is done by 1% of pupils, as the table shows.

This is my experience with my two children OP.

First child had a 7 at GCSE maths. She dropped out of A level maths after 3 weeks. It was a good decision. She swapped for Economics and went on to achieve an A*.

Second child had a 9 at GCSE maths. She is whizzing through A level Maths and Further Maths.

There is a big gap between a 7 and a 9. I know some people say they are all the old A range, but there really is a difference.

Anecdotes not withstanding, I think you are giving sound advice. The table you shared is an eye opener.

Good advice OP. Even if you do have the grades I think you really have to want to do it and be really motivated to do well. DD has a 9 in GCSE Maths but it was very hard work and she decided against A- level. She chose other subjects she enjoyed more, and achieved 3 A stars, which she is certain wouldn't have happened if she'd done Maths. DS got an 8 and also opted out of Maths A-level, as he didn't enjoy it and his teacher actually said he'd probably get a B. Like DD he chose Economics and other subjects he enjoyed more, and knew he could get A stars in.

It depends a bit on what on why you are doing it.aine people are just doing it as a 4th to support their main science subjects.
The other thing I will say is that rhe quality of maths teaching at A level can be, shall we say, mixed. At my dcs school the best teachers were teaching the FM students and the other sets were often taught by non maths specialists who struggled with the questions themselves

Maybe I can get a bit of advice here for DD16. She got a 9 in her maths mock (along with mostly other 9s) and has worked at a 9 consistently for the past 2 years. Loves maths.

However, she fell apart on paper one and missed a few (big) questions, which will have a huge impact on her grade now. She said papers 2 and 3 went very well, but nothing will pull her grade back to a 9, or even an 8. We are trying to work with her on this as she is adamant she still wants to do A level maths but I think she may get a 7.

I have read these posts to her, talked about how hard it is etc etc but she is so upset she messed up on her favourite subject she is reluctant to not take it at A level. She is also taking chem and bio. Should I continue to put her off maths if it is a 7 tomorrow? We will obvs speak to her school about it at enrolment too.

Well done that 2.1% in the top left!!

@bluefineliner Have you looked at usual grade boundaries? You may be surprised at how many marks can be dropped.

It sounds to me that yours would come under the 'exception' criteria, perfectly able but had a bad exam.

The grade is only acting as an indicator for ability and work ethic. An 8/9 brought down to a 7 by one bad exam isn't an issue.

Someone who needed tutoring to pull up into a 7 (not due to illness or appalling teaching) is much more of a problem, as is able but lazy who slipped to a 6/7 as that would show they haven't bothered to master GCSE content. You can get a 7 with a lot of missed marks.

Our school don’t set bridging work- has anyone any suggestions for what they can do to prepare?

some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications

I know many in this situation. They love Maths at GCSE but by end of Year 12 they are struggling. It's very damaging for your confidence to sit in a class and know you are not keeping up. I think with Maths it's very noticeable as you often work through problems in class, unlike essay based subjects.

I took A level maths at evening classes as an adult. 20 people started the course.. By the end 3 of us remained and took the exam. I got a B.

@noblegiraffe What do you think if someone does get an 8 (I hope…) but has always had a bit of a block with mental arithmetic. Has found a way around it and worked really hard but is still quite slow on basic calculations. Will A level maths be ok for someone like that?

@StarsInTheSkies The higher up you go in maths the fewer numbers there are. ( Also I don't know but guessing, there presumably isn't a mon calculator paper at A level.)

@bluefineliner I just looked up the trend of grade boundaries. You can drop 80 marks, which is a whole paper's worth and still be in with a chance of an 8 some years!

Thanks, I just had a quick look at last years and there is a chance she could get an 8 but it really does depend on how bad paper 1 is. DD is very dramatic but she literally did not answer the last few big mark questions so I have no idea.

I don't want to knock her confidence by putting her off, so I am waiting for tomorrow's result to see how to play it from there! I dropped out of A level maths, as did my older DD so I know how hard it is. I did think DD2 was a natural but we will see tomorrow!

Gosh waiting for results is awful 😂.

Dc school will only let you do a level maths with a 9 at gcse

Which school is this? I am really surprised that any school has a grade 9 requirement in GCSE maths to sit A-level maths. I’d be less surprised if it is A-level further maths that you are talking about.

That'll be fine. They'll have a calculator for every A-level exam. The further you get with maths, the fewer calculations you have to do!

@bluefineliner your dd absolutely sounds like she should be doing A-level maths, regardless of the messed up paper 1. If she loves it, was on course for a 9 and is doing Chemistry and Biology, then maths goes very well with them - it's the most popular combination of subjects at A-level.

I’d be very surprised if she gets a 7 just by missing the last few questions on one paper. My DD always leaves the last few questions and is on track for an 8.