Yearly warning not to take A-level maths with less than a 7 at GCSE

[noblegiraffe]

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day is coming.

So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a strong correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder.

There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications.

If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade.

This data is from 2019 because obviously more recent data has been screwed up by covid.

If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography).

If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

Yes, back when I was at school, pupils who got As in maths GCSE got Ds and Es in A level. A few got As and Bs too, but it was rare. That was at a small private school, too, where there were resources for good teaching in very small classes.

Ds is doing A level maths. He also did further maths gcse and has completed bridging work. I really hope there are no nasty surprises tomorrow.

I used to teach A level Biology and had similar conversations with students wanting to start from a lower GCSE grade, and then being surprised at scraping an E. That table is really useful for maths.

On a personal note my son can recommend the Core Maths course he's just got an A (from a 6 at GCSE) he found it useful to support Psychology A level and also it got him a reduced offer from university (bbb to bcc with b in core maths)

I would advise against it.

DS got a very easy 9 at GCSE Maths.
He went to college and had a very meh attitude. He stuck with it because everyone (teachers etc) always expected Maths to be his thing, he'd get an A*, go to Uni to do a degree, but he didn't enjoy it. He did zero homework for 2 years, didn't revise at all. Came out with a C (he was one mark off a B), but his teacher told him every week, to be good at Maths you have to do Maths. They only let him carry on because they knew he wouldn't fail, but they were as disappointed in him as much as he was disappointed in himself and he knows he just wasted everyone's time really.

For those who haven't been set any bridging work, there's a booklet here:

https://www.aesessex.co.uk/assets/Images/Uploads/Summer-Bridging-Work-2024/Maths-AL.pdf

Really interesting and useful looking booklet @noblegiraffe

(No use for it in our house except maybe me for fun, but DD having done no maths for a year has delighted me with how much foundation stuff she can still do in warm up for returning to college and another GCSE resit attempt.)

Please do come back on this thread and tell us how your DC got on with the maths results tomorrow!!

A Level maths shouldn't really be underestimated. DD1 got an A in GCSE maths (old GCSEs) but ended up with a C at A Level. And that was with weekly tutoring. DD1 is neurodivergent, which we didn't know at the time. So maybe if we did she would have done better. But who knows. Either way we are proud of the effort she put in at school in general.

A lot of her friends easily walked out with A stars at GCSE but walked out with D/E/U in Year 12. A lot more than expected ended up dropping Maths instead of their planned 4th subject.

This is worrying. Ds2 is predicted mostly 4's and 5's in his gcse's with a 6 in maths, 7 in music and 8 in geography. He hates geography and is hoping to do music, maths and physics at a level.

I don't know if this will make sense, but I think you have to really understand maths and have a fluency - like a native tongue - to do well at A level maths.
My son has always " got" maths. It's like he can see it. They used to call him the human calculator at primary school; their hardest task was persuading him to show his working as he didn't always know how he knew the answer.
He is doing brilliantly at A level, loving it (for the first time, I think he always found it a bit simple before) and getting scores in the high 90s (and once, 100%) on mocks.

My daughter on the other hand is " good at maths" in that she has responded well to good teaching and enjoys maths. She has a good recall and can apply algorithms correctly. She should do well at GCSE, I imagine a 7 or 8. But I think A level would be really hard for her despite that score, because maths isn't her natural language, her native tongue, in the same way as it is my son's. I think she might consider it...and I will try to steer her elsewhere.

My son got a 6 at gcse maths and a b at a level, it can be done

It can be done, see the table, but the stats are against it. Anyone going against the stats needs to accept the probable outcome or have reasoning why they will do better.

@elliejjtiny The bridging booklet noble linked to looks really good. If your DC hasn't been set bridging work get them to do that to see how they get on. I think maths A level is a big ask from a 6, which is why most places ask for a 7 even our local large colleges which accept 5/6s for many other subjects.

Can I ask where you got the table from @noblegiraffe? Ds doesn't want to do maths, but wants to do biology - I wondered if there was a similar table for other subjects?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7589f0ed915d6faf2b3c55/DFE-RR195.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiB78bD94eIAxVPRkEAHQhoDVkQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0WuiKNBHyGaToq_2j7ZiYQ

@FantasticFox27 If you go far enough in this document there are various bar charts of similar data, page 19 onwards.

(I seem to have to click on the first part of the link not the second, don't know why)

All makes sense, thanks op.

So DD got an 8 in maths after all the stress! Not too far off a 9 which is a miracle based on paper 1. She also got 9s in every other subject so we are very happy today. Thanks for the reassurance from PPs on her taking A level maths, she is going to enrol for it soon.

DD got her 8 - I am going to have to trust that she can do maths……. 🎉🎉

DD got 9s in maths and further maths and is very much looking forwards to maths A level. She loves maths and seems to " speak" maths.

What's the source @noblegiraffe? I'm not questioning, I would just be interested to know for my dc who had just received GCSE results what the projections are for other subjects. I'm also betting its a similar pattern for maths and science GCSE results feeding into Psychology A level.

I think it was from Edexcel from their own data (so Edexcel GCSE pupils who went on to do Edexcel A-level). This would be most kids as Edexcel is by far the most popular exam board for maths.

There are some other crowd sourced tables with far fewer pupils but very similar picture e.g https://x.com/kerrydunton/status/1297553856751177728?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

I'm not sure other subjects do it, maths teachers desperately need this data to justify higher entry requirements for their subject to sixth form heads!

For more general GCSE to A-level grades the government transition matrices are here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/16-to-18-level-3-value-added-ready-reckoner

Having seen this post several times over the years (thank you @noblegiraffe ) I had words with DS when he chose to do Maths A Level and said I would not recommend him doing it unless he got a 9 or a high 8. Same with Physics and Chemistry. Luckily he's just achieved 9s but has also been doing the transition work for all three subjects in the past few weeks to make sure he is prepped for the big step up in content.

Almost as if some of the posters have a poor understanding of how statistics work and would struggle with GCSE maths...

Argh! Having looked at the grade boundaries, DS missed getting a 9 for maths by one mark. Is it worth appealing? There is a letter in his envelope which says his teacher thinks he could appeal. I haven't told him about the grade boundaries yet as he might just be frustrated on missing out so narrowly, so will broach the subject when I get in from work... This is the one 9 he really wanted!

@WinkyTinky yes get a review, I would.