Yearly warning not to take A-level maths with less than a 7 at GCSE

[noblegiraffe]

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day is coming.

So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a strong correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder.

There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications.

If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade.

This data is from 2019 because obviously more recent data has been screwed up by covid.

If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography).

If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

I actually think it is a good thing that A levels are challenging and rigourous. And interesting and relevant (which A level MFL is IMO). They can only be that if we accept that only students who reach a certain level in the subject are wise to attempt them.

We have heard a lot in recent years about grade inflation – are people really saying they think A levels should be easier? A level is a respected qualification which is valued by universities and employers.

Obviously A levels are not for everyone – and I think that’s OK as there are other qualifications or routes that are more suitable.

I start these thread because my school allows students to take A-level maths with a grade 6 and I have to deal with the fallout.

I've had kids dragged through two years of a course they were always going to struggle with from the start. I've had parents at parents evening when they've been told they're going to get an E or a U say 'if we'd been told this was likely at the start, we'd have made a different decision because now they can't access decent uni courses'. We've had kids have to drop out at the end of Y12 and restart with different A-levels and add an extra year to their sixth form study.

There is no slack in the system for kids with a 6 to have a go and see how they get on. In the olden days they started with 4 and could drop maths at AS. Now they are stuck with it.

Forewarned is forearmed.

I translate grades too. I put my letter grades into numbers when talking to my dc, then I convert the dc number grades into letters when I tell my sister what they got on results day. Then I tell my mum what they got in letters, then the cse's and o level equivalent. Then I tell my grandad that they passed their school certificate!

It also goes the other way.
I managed (somehow, not quite sure how) an A in GCSE MFL. There is absolutely no way I'd have been a suitable candidate for Alevel MFL. GCSE was achieved on vocabulary drilling and intuitive answering. I have minimal skill in languages, and attempting an alevel would have been painful for all involved!
I also got A* in Phys, Chemistry &Maths. And they translated into As at Alevel (when that was the highest grade awarded). (And the A in Bio lead to a B at Alevel).
I'd say there is also a degree of desire and interest in the subject that leads to success at higher levels.

for me A levels worked. My brother would have thrived in IB or A level. I would love IB to ve more widely available for those with strengths in a range of areas. But Alevels are fabulous for those with very narrow strengths and/or interests.

I’m similar - got the only A* in my school year at Spanish and they still didn’t want me for A level. 😂 Apparently you can learn Spanish like it is maths - focussing on learning the patterns and logic - and do very well at GCSE but that won’t work at A level. Got As in Maths, F Maths and Physics A levels and then an maths degree instead so it all worked out for the best. 😉

@noblegiraffe I think you're absolutely right and as other posters have said A levels should be challenging. I just think it's disappointing that the A level in Maths, from I can see is too challenging that it results in young people who have very good grades at GCSE not attaining a pass at A level. Again, the fact that young people can spend two years doing a course and walk away with nothing is a fault of the system - the AS and A level system with all it's faults in the 2000s was much better in my opinion.

It did not read like that. You just got your knickers in a twist about something I never said or implied.

Well it did to me. You can say that as much as you like, but that is how it came across to me.. You can't tell other people how words come across to them. And you're not helping yourself by being unpleasant.

Well you've got poor comprehension skills then.

There you go again being unnecessarily unpleasant. I'm sorry you feel you have do that.

You're not helping yourself by accusing me of something I never wrote and then not apologising for it

I'm not accusing you.. I said how something came across to me. Let it go, it's really not a big deal.

Yes and you were wrong.

Ok you're one of those who needs to be right... yes I was wrong happy???😂

@GabrielOakRose glad I've made you laugh...

It didn’t come across like that to me. They were just paraphrasing what had been said earlier…

I agree with this. My DD is super bright mathsy kid that naturally aces maths.

But for A-level she's had to WORK to get the results. She was already trying hard at GCSE but it came naturally. Even at A-level the concepts click but it's a huge course with a lot to learn.

It's sad because another girl we know worked so very very very hard at Maths A-level and for effort should have got an A* but no amount of tutoring, help, extra guidance, hours put in doing papers, she came out with a C.

I'd say don't do maths A-level unless you get a silver in the UKMT no problem, with no help, regularly, year after year, with no tutoring or help, ever. Otherwise it's going to be a real struggle. You need a genetic maths brain to do well at it. You can't 'put the effort' in if you haven't got the genetic predisposition.

Eek. No idea what that competition you mention is, not heard of it. My DS really, really wants to do maths A level and is on for a 7…some of these stories are concerning me but I do not want to stop him. He gets a taster and bridging work so that might give him an idea.

Edited to say 7 with no help at home, no tutoring. not worked particularly hard but done all homework. If he starts it I’ll be v vigilant early weeks. I think he can start 4, which could be an idea in case it doesn’t work

Well that’s just go to show how we are all different. Seriously it’s not a big deal. People shouldn’t get so upset they feel the need to be offensive to others.

I’ve noticed at DS’ first choice sixth form which requires a 7 for A level almost 70 children do Maths A level. 46% A-A, 70% A-B, 96% A*- C. Would be interested to know how that maps to GCSE. So 4 children in the cohort didn’t manage a C which seems decent out of 70 odd, v decent

My son got a 9. He is doing maths and FM and is on track for an A star for both. There have been one or two concepts he has struggled with and a tutor (uni student) sorted that out. Sometimes it just takes someone new to explain the concepts in a different way. He had maybe 6 or sessions I think. Totally worth it.

People do get upset when their kids with 5s and 6s are warned off doing A levels (stem in particular it seems). They’re very decent GCSE grades but it’s only right that they go into their sixth form years well informed of what’s coming.
We need to remember what the A is short for. They’re designed to be challenging courses and there are other options out there for students who won’t succeed in getting good enough grades for their next step in life

I have a daughter taking Maths and further Maths at A levels. She is expected to get A*s in both. She and other students like her, have to take the Maths A level, not just the Further Maths A level. I feel like they make the grade boundary harder for everyone else. Some kids just have brains born for Maths and there is a huge gulf between them and their need to be stretched and the rest of us who could benefit from more years of learning Math without the penalty of a poor A level grade.

Maybe Maths for Business or Statistics for Social Sciences would be useful A levels.

Maybe Maths for Business or Statistics for Social Sciences would be useful A levels.

There’s exactly this course, called Core Maths which is great. It counts as half an A-level and you take it alongside three A-levels.