All Private School Parents Should Get State School Places to Fight Back VAT

[LondonSam]

All Private School Parents Should Get State School Places to Fight Back VAT

But there isn't a nationwide, free to all service for any of those. There is for school.

Is there? Are you sure?
https://news.sky.com/story/theres-no-school-for-my-child-parents-of-pupils-with-additional-needs-turn-to-unregulated-education-13067361

@mugboat

"I didn't say that, did I? but using the excuse of 'society is unequal so let's keep our private schools' is not valid imo."

But using the excuse that society is unequal and that a two tier education system is either the cause or contributes to that inequality not only creates firstly reinforces the message to poorer children that the system is stacked against them, their life choices don't matter and that their situation is helpless, so why bother trying.

Secondly it is used as an excuse by certain parents who not only believe that their situation is helpless but so is that of their children so they don't create the stable home and they don't value their children's education.

Whether you keep or get rid of private schools will do nothing to change equality which firstly will always exist and secondly a degree of inequality is necessary otherwise you destroy ambition and hope to do better.

Wow, your prejudice is showing. How incredibly offensive. On both counts. I can only assume you've got no idea what it's like.

Let me tell you. I'm not 'poor' yet cannot afford private sch. I do not in anyway slate rich people or private schools to my children. Never. My neice and nephew go to private sch for starters so I wouldn't want my kids being rude to them, making assumptions or thinking that they are in any way inferior for not attending private sch. In fact, I never mention it in order to play it down.

Secondly, I do not believe my 'situation' ie helpless. In fact we are lucky in many ways. I also support my children's education in ways I CBA to explain to a stranger on the Internet.

So perhaps you can shove off with your offensive views.

You assume us state sch parents are bitter and jealous because you can't conceive some of us care about those beyond our 4 walls.

Not the case. I merely want a two tier education system to be abolished. It's that simple. And insulting me and "the poor' is not going to change my mind.

@KielderWater You're right. Private schools can offer an escape valve for kids with additional needs. But that's an argument for an exemption for them, not an across the board tax break.

Making decision based on competitiveness to get in is hardly a proper assesment of a school. It is the teaching, the pastoral care that matters and not how.many kids are trying to get into the school.

Grammar schools get less money per pupil because the school needs less money per pupil. So parents sending their children there are not being naive, they simply recognise that their children need less money.

Poor pastoral care in grammars? Citation needed.

Mediocre teachers? Again, citation needed.

I am a teacher in a grammar school. I think I am a great teacher and very pastoral :)

Some like selective school and some don't give a damn of it. Parents have their own judgement on what constitutes a good school for their children. I wonder why some people always say that grammar school kids are privileged. It's simply a group of smart children coming together in a specialised environment.

If you think that state schools don’t do as well as private schools, the answer is to try and make state schools better. Raising standards in state schools in England (phonics in primary schools, knowledge based curriculums, better teaching of maths) has resulted in England moving up international league tables. We have many truly outstanding state schools in England: we should ensure that these schools are copied more generally. That is the way to reduce inequality, rather than closing private schools.

As a state school teacher, I am glad that excellent private schools exist. They shine a light on what can be done and make me want to compete better as a teacher, raising standards.

It's not a tax break.

Education has been (until now) exempt from VAT, just as it is throughout most of the world and has been advocated in legal opinions since the 1980s.

If you want to impose tax on certain parts of fee paying education fine, but don't dress it up as something it is not.

It is a tax break only in the same way as breathing benefits from a tax break - or private healthcare and private prescriptions (just wait for the propaganda to start re:the latter two 'benefitting from a tax break'.

Yes I do know what grammar schools are and it seems you clearly have a chip on your shoulder about them. Many parents would be happy to send their parents to one even with a good Ofsted grade… no need to be quite so rude in your responses.

And as for reading the whole thread many people dip in and out of threads and don’t read it all it’s not the law to read the whole thread before posting.. so wind you’re neck in!

Should say your rather than you’re…

@northernerinthesouth2000 You should change your nick to " youhaveachiponyourshoulder" because you seem overuse it all the time. Please stop stalking me. I have a right to have my opinion. I am Lib Dem voter and I am against elitism of private and grammars. Can I ? yes, I can. And you can believe in whatever you want. EOT with you

@Pythag

Ofsted insists grammar schools were not unfairly targeted in ... The Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk › news › 2022/11/22 › ofst... Overall, 66 per cent of outstanding grammars inspected last year were downgraded that is only in 2022. Four in five 'outstanding' schools lose top Ofsted grade

Grammar schools ratings topple as new Ofsted regime bites

Menorah Grammar school receives 'inadequate' Ofsted rating The Jewish Chronicle www.thejc.com › family-and-education › menora... Menorah Grammar School in Edgware has received an “inadequate” Once 'outstanding' school plagued by racism, homophobia, and misogyny according to scathing Ofsted report Carre's Grammar was rated 'inadequate', Ofsted judges Colchester Royal Grammar School inadequate BBC www.bbc.co.uk › uk-england-essex-57748685 A top grammar school accused of having a "toxic rape culture" by an ex-pupil has been rated inadequate by Ofsted. North London Grammar School - "Inadequate" Ofsted report Charedi school downgraded after Ofsted criticises lack of

and a better case, of those who were not marked inadequate but went from Outstanding to Good:

https://reports.ofsted.gov.uk/provider/23/136910
https://reports.ofsted.gov.uk/provider/23/136787

these are only two from many many many....

Hard working children deserve better provision. if they fight to get into the school it should be better than Outstanding comprehensive. I am afraid since 4 out of 5 grammar have been downgraded- they are not. Yes, maybe these schools were top notch. best provision. But this is a history... Most of them are not any more

Your own sources state that 80% of schools with outstanding ratings were downgraded to good under the new regime. Your own sources state that 66% of outstanding grammars were downgraded to good under the new regime.

Your own sources therefore claim that grammar schools were more likely to maintain an outstanding rating than non-grammar schools.

So your argument is bullshit.

It is not me who is stalking you but you who is stalking me @northernerinthesouth2000 I have never been rude to you but you are all the time. You are harassing me each time I mention grammar schools. You reacting out of proportion just because of what I state about grammar schools. Please calm down and stop writing to me. Everybody is entitled to an opinion.,

@PeachSalad interesting your take on this… I am just responding to your comments I wouldn’t call that stalking if you don’t want to engage in a discussion stop replying? It’s that simple and yes you were rude actually.

And yes you’re right everyone is entitled to an opinion and mine is that you were rude and aggressive in your reply to my original comment.

@Pythag

The discussion is not about the superiority of comprehensive over grammar. Grammar schools are selective and hardly any grammar school should lose their Outstanding badge. What is the point of selectiveness if the schools are in many cases no better than comprehensive?

I am very realistic here. The effort of passing the selective exam should be for a reason of continuing education in the school that is selectively great. But as Ofsted reality shows- they are in most cases not.

@northernerinthesouth2000 your usual offensive comment about the chip on the shoulder is condescending and aggressive. Hence you received an adequate response that was not aggressive just asking you to stop targeting me and writing to me. I will start reporting your insults

@PeachSalad well telling people what they can discuss on a public forum is likely to result in a rude response.. hence I was rude in reply. Yes a bit childish of me but hey no one is perfect. I don’t believe I’ve insulted you but called you out for being rude. I do genuinely apologise if you feel insulted but perhaps you ought to think about your own comments too. As I’ve said you can just stop replying but you continue to respond.

What the discussion is about is your initial claim that grammars have worse teaching and worse pastoral care than comprehensives.

I asked you to provide evidence.

You provided some links which show that grammars are less likely to lose an outstanding rating than other schools.

I called you out on your bullshit. Now kindly concede that you don’t have evidence for your initial claim.

What the discussion is about is your initial claim that grammars have worse teaching and worse pastoral care than comprehensive.

Please quote me where I stated it @Pythag

I am very interested what exact words I stated you directly referring to . Please read carefully what I said.

And yes, Ofsted is assessing in the same way Grammar schools as Comprehensives. For the teaching criterion, some Grammar have a lower score than the Comprehensives- criterion: quality of education. There are comprehensive that have Outstanding for that criterion

about pastoral care it is something that you have to read the entire Ofsted report as many things fall under several criteria.

Here is your claim “poor pastoral care, and mediocre teachers.” You have provided no evidence for this claim.

If your position is simply that some comprehensive schools have better Ofsted scores than some grammar schools, then it would have been better to have been clear about this from the start. This is a true and uncontroversial statement that everyone agrees with.

yes I did. You didn't click all links I provided hence you didn't see. Apart from listing grammars that were marked as inadequate, I provided two examples where the criterion "quality of education" was downgraded from Outstanding to good. Good in Ofstead language is average. Mediocre means of average quality. Most of grammar schools that have been downgraded were for a similar reasons.

pastoral care- a lot is mentioned in articles I listed. Also if you read the entire reports. A lot can be heard from parents who have the kids there