All Private School Parents Should Get State School Places to Fight Back VAT

[LondonSam]

All Private School Parents Should Get State School Places to Fight Back VAT

I fullly support this. All private schools would close, and the state sector would improve immensly as a a whole bunch of pushy parents join. We could nationalise the now defunct public schools. The people who can afford private schools will have a lot more disposable income and wealth, so a modest increase in tax on high earners would pay for it. It's an absolute win-win!

Then, let's do pirvate health.

@mugboat

"let's try to to entrench inequality with a two tier educational system."

If you think that inequality is down to private education then you're clearly demonstrating the lack of agency from parents I was referring to.

The next step is banning the application of the US Ivies for UK citizens. It creates a multiple-layer education system. Change all the universities' names to Oxbridge to make it fair to all. LOL.

Nope. Parents being pushy has no effect, as demonstrated by the numbers of pushy parents in the state sector already who can do bugger all about anything. A couple of extra families won’t change that.

Also, the belief that the really rich ones that can afford boarding are just going to accept the local comp is silly. There are plenty of overseas boarding schools available and if you are going to pay extra it may as well be for flights and a nice climate.

For everyone else, there’s the inevitable fight to be closest in catchment. Or tutors* and HE if you don’t manage it.

*Tutors being a fabulous way for schools to look like they are improving when they are not. Our catchment comp has had its results supported by the army of external tutors for years. Only now the wheels are falling off as good results for the wealthier families can no longer mask the poor teaching for the remainder.

BUT seriously guys - it’s happening and won’t change without serious legal action. If your kid is about to start like mine, you should have factored VAT into your fee expectations. If you started before and you’re short on cash, then you can either move the kid or take out the loan/extra mortgage to see them through to the next transition point.

If you plan to do the former - apply now for the school place as there’s often a lot of movement over summer.

@Kneidlach

"But I personally don’t think something as fundamental as core education should be unequal and dependent on a child’s parents income"

But something as fundamental as core education depends on so much more than a child's parents income.

A stable home life , parental encouragement in the value of education and a belief that education is the best route out of poverty and are way more important than state versus private education.

It is also fair to state that a stable home life , parental encouragement in the value of education are more prevalent amongst the wealthy compared to the poor.

To single out private education as the determining factor in the inequality of education is simply showing a lack of agency amongst these parents for these much more important other factors.

I have put two through two different private schools- there was most definitely bullying in both.

Spot on! The lack of accountability from many parents who couldn’t be bothered to support their children and help them with homework etc at home is staggering…. But the energy and effort to complain and comment on those who prioritise their time and funds towards their children’s education is astounding!

High earners already pay approx 40 - 45% of their income in taxes. How much more do you want from them.

Personally, it is going to be funny once the stats are published on lower tax revenue due to the numbers that have left the country!

Many international students also won't bother coming to U.K. boarding schools as Swiss & European ones are now comparatively cheaper with similar education.

Feel bad for those parents who will be left!

Absolutely this.

It won’t stop at VAT on only Private School fees. Many nurseries have been struggling to make ends meet for some time..and this opens the doors to charging VAT on those fees. And so will Universities who are also making similar noises. I am in a Music Teachers SM group and there are already concerns peripatetic teachers will have to go self-employed (which will remove their benefits) because the government hasn’t been clear about which elements of the fee structure are VAT applicable.

Either we apply VAT to all educational services or to none. Picking and choosing sets a dangerous precedent. A bit like the age old question about Jaffa cakes - looks like a biscuit, sits in the biscuit aisle, but for the purposes of VAT is apparently a cake - so zero rated.

I’d add I have no skin in the game anymore, my kids are out of the system but as I stated above, we are in the realms of having unintended consequences here and anyone who thinks VAT application will stop at Private School fees is being a bit naive really.

I didn't say that, did I? but using the excuse of 'society is unequal so let's keep our private schools' is not valid imo.

Also, it's not so much lack of agency but lack of parental knowledge that can holds children back.

By this I mean, a knowledge of how to support children at school, knowledge of HE, knowledge different types of jobs available. Also, lack of contacts... e.g child from low income home will do work experience at a shop, child from high income home will do work experience in The City.

Hardly the parents' fault, definitely not the child's fault. If certain children and families never mix with the general population, then these differences become further entrenched.

If you think troll, like I do, report as I did

No-one said bullying doesn't exist in private schools - it's the willingness and ability to deal with bullying effectively that sets the private schools apart from the state ones. And frankly, if my kids private school wasn't;t dealing with it effectively I'd find a better one and take my child and my money elsewhere.

But they don't deal adequately with bullies. All parents are clients. Therefore, they try to sweep issues under the carpet without upset to either side. Very rarely they manage out kids refunding their parents a term if they sign non disclosure agreement preventing any defamation.

Private schools also accept any money from rich donors who pay waaay above and beyond what is expected for tution fees and boarding. All of that so their kid, grandson has a happy time at school.
Private school teachers also receive generous Christmas gifts from individual parents.

it's the willingness and ability to deal with bullying effectively that sets the private schools apart from the state ones

How naive. It is all marketing. Most of private schools cannot deal effectively with bullying. Even superselective private schools that have a waiting list cannot afford disgruntled parents of managed out kids.

Absolutely spot on. I had one incident with a child who was one of four, all at the school with hateful bullying parents, who were spending a fortune on fees. If you think the school was going to confront them and risk loosing the revenue you are totally out of touch with reality!!

'They should be VAT free in the same way that university, after schools clubs, external clubs, tutors and nurseries are VAT free! They should not pay VAT just because of a government with a huge chip on their shoulder.'

But there isn't a nationwide, free to all service for any of those. There is for school.

Completely agree. I have just seen my DC’s private school get rid of someone very swiftly due to bullying. The headteacher always says at open days that a private school is lying if they say they don’t have bullying and that it’s how they deal with it that matters. State schools have their hands tied to an extent but some of them are completely ineffectual (as I sure am some private schools). I even had abuse shouted at me during an assembly and still nothing was done to resolve it.

@Janedoe82 the point is that lots of pupils are removed from state schools that don’t deal with bullying or don’t otherwise support their needs and moved to private because that is the only realistic option for their parents. This includes removal from state schools that are rated “outstanding” and have good reputations. It’s not just the sink schools. And like many private school parents, I have a DC in private school because I want to keep them safe and happy. It’s nothing to do with exam results. My DC’s state school are far better results wise. There is so much lack of understanding of why many parents use private schools. It makes me so angry.

Interesting when you say downgraded what do you mean? As nothing wrong with sending your child to a school that has been downgraded.. some schools are working hard to improve, sometimes these schools have more to prove than the outstanding ones.

@Dibblydoodahdah when my parents complained about me being bullied the head told them it was character building. I got straight As so on paper you could see me as a state school success.
I actually couldn't give a shit about the final product as I was desperately unhappy for 5 years (despite my dad being a governor and my mum being on the PTA equivalent! <massive eye roll at the suggestion that shit schools just need keen involved parents>.
So yeah, over my dead body will my kids have that secondary school experience. Nothing to do with the results or getting ahead.

Downgraded by Ofsted from Outstanding to Good. And if you read the reports and look for the reason you will find that it is for the not Outstanding teaching.

As nothing wrong with sending your child to a school that has been downgraded..

We are talking about superselective Grammar schools.Many parents spend a fortune for tution or are hothousing kids for years to pass 11+ and get in. They also spend fortune to get in the catchment of those grammars. And these schools are not even representing Outstanding teaching. They thoughtlessly follow wild goose chase basing on the silly assumption: hard to get in = must be good teachinv.

This is not a discussion about comprehensive schools

follow wild goose chase? Trust that people can make their own judgements. It's not necessary to agree on what's best for their children. Otherwise, how is it any different from living in North Korea?

Wow! That’s me told! Calm down!

I can discuss whatever I like on this forum

Perhaps but not with me and not out of context. Please read the thread what was the discussion about.
What is " this school" that I have a personal issue with? Made me aware because I don't know. There are no grammar schools in my borough.
Again, you read one post and taking things out of context because you were not bothered to read it all: we were talking about grammars in general. Many grammars were downgraded by Ofsted since 2020. And that is what we were talking about

many people would be delighted to send their children to a good school not everyone has the option of outstanding…
What on Earth are you talking about? What has that got to do with what I was saying? Do you even know what grammar schools are?

I was with you all the way until your final sentence. I didn’t used to have a negative view of private schools until it came to looking for a place for my son with SEN. All of the smaller, local, nurturing private schools turned him down. This is an intelligent, kind, funny boy who would have benefitted massively from smaller class sizes and a smaller campus - but no, these schools have their pick of the local kids and rejected mine. The irony of them telling me they thought he would struggle with having to move around their tiny school to different classes - he is now in a 240 entry state mainstream school. In fact he has just successfully completed year 7 and is exceeding in maths and science, and teachers are happy with his progress in the other subjects.

This experience was enough for me to now be a firm state sector education supporter - I was actually told by an SEN advisor that my son would probably be better off in the state sector as they are better able to support his needs. The support required for his needs are really only a laptop and caring and understanding teachers - which we are lucky to have found in the school he was placed in - which incidentally was our fourth preference. Of course my son would come better in a smaller school, but his state mainstream school is doing a fantastic job with him - and it has made me passionate about the state school system.