Read this an tell me you still agree with VAT on school fees

[Sally20099]

DS is 3 years from finishing private school which includes 2 years in the sixth form. DD was due to start same senior school in Sept. Both went to private prep but due to talk of VAT on fees, and certainty of Labour govt for some time, we actually investigated sending DD to state secondary school. Only one in the entire city is rated outstanding but DD has got a place so we have decided to send her there. It’s very good academically but obviously hasn’t got the facilities of the private option. Currently school fees are £19,300 per year (before VAT) for DS so we have saved a reasonable sum by going to state school with DD. DS will finish at his school and we could afford DD fees (even with VAT) so we will instead put £12k a year extra in savings for DD and then spend the rest of the savings on an extra winter holiday. We would have never looked at state schools without the VAT policy and instead we have taken the place of someone at an outstanding rated school. Im not posting to annoy anyone, I wanted those who unequivocally support this to see some of the consequences. We also know a reasonable number of children in DS year who can’t afford fees with VAT and are taking their children out of private and going into state - and taking more places at the limited good schools. Its probably no surprise that most families in private schools happen to also live in good areas, meaning catchment areas tend to work out quite well when they go state.

If 93% were paying it, as opposed to 6.4%

But it's only the 6.4% now potentially costing the state extra for places. If half of them switch, that would be paid for by the half that don't. If less than half switch, it's extra money in the tax pot (Disclaimer- £35k pa not my figures for average private school place, just what's quoted in this previous post).

Labour has also confirmed that there will be no VAT exemption for military families, despite expectations they could be spared

https://archive.is/YzLvr

I've been reading this and I think the decision to not exempt VAT for military families is an extraordinarily short-sighted bad idea...

CEA isn't just for those who hog the officers mess and I certainly don't think the Lance Corporal husband of Holly Pope (pseudonym) is anywhere near rich at £34,000 a year.

Lance Corporal's are the 2nd lowest rank in the Army and the 2nd highest amount of soldiers who claim CEA for their children.

It's very short-sighted and is bound to have a direct impact on retention of soldiers.

Besides that, it offers the children of military families some much needed stability after all they don't choose their parents careers whatever rank they happen to be.

The desperate comparisons trotted out by OP and her ilk about private health, Rolls Royces, holidays etc are completely false.

There is no other private thing that you do day in day out for 14 years, like going to school, that has the same disproportionate far reaching effect on society. The government (historically), professions, arts, elite sport, judiciary, armed forces and so on are not dominated by people who are in powerful positions because they had their appendix out in a bupa hospital fgs. So this government is trying to address these inequalities and good on them.

“We will save our money and take an extra holiday instead”. You can’t hear the privilege? And I’m guessing you can send a kid to an Ofsted outstanding rated state school because you can afford the premium that a property in those post codes attracts? This post couldn’t have made me agree with VAT on private education more if you’d tried.

Private education should not be subsidised.I am sure schools will be enterprising and you should hire a an accountant to help you pay as little as possible.This is an entitled and quite baffling post. What exactly is the problem?

Aspirational parents are good for state schools. Fight for more funding and parity. Write to your MP.

And unless one child has a specific need it s is very unwise to send to different schools. It will create resentment. As you mention a nest egg for dd and not a renovation or pension pot eg it’s probable your children will financially benefit anyway. This is such a strange post. I understand the point about an impecunious child, newspaper in shoes, missing out on a place your dd has but haven’t heard anything about fighting for every child or even caring. Let’s be honest, private schools differ wildly and a good state school is better than many.

Except it won't be 20%, the VAT paid by the schools can be offset.

Also £35k - where is that figure from? Over inflated, most normal independent schools are nowhere near this amount.

You could collapse all these threads and just state that selfish people support taxes that others have to pay.

There’s a reason why no other country in the entire world levies tax on education. The UK is now an embarrassment, driven by envy. It won’t end well.

It might make you realise what a lot of money you've spunked on private education that was a complete waste, because you were sold the belief that it made you better and your children cleverer and your family happier

There you go, making assumptions about something you clearly know nothing about.

Both DH and I attended state schools, mine being in the middle of a very rough northern city, so I know exactly what they are all about.

Secondly, I haven’t spunked anything on private fees. It was money well spent. IMO, my DC have been really well educated. I’m not talking about getting great grades and a dead cert place at a top Uni. I’m talking about being a well rounded person with loads of interests and being taught subjects they wouldn’t have had access to in most state schools.

One of my DC’s friends did Latin, Ancient Greek and Philosophy at A’level. They want to carry this on to Uni. Why is this a threat to other DC at state? How has this student got an advantage over others? Why can’t their parents spend their money on this, instead of other things?

DC1 wanted to stay at private 6th form. As far as I am concerned it was worth every penny for him. He’s a very well educated, confident, self assured young man with integrity and great manners. He was offered a look at state 6th, and he chose to stay where he was.

DC2 has done really well at private too. He was asked to look at state 6th. He liked what he saw. It’s bigger, more sociable, and his mates are going there. He’s happy with his choice.

It didn’t make my DC cleverer. I don’t think you can mess with nature. It did make me feel better. Knowing that your kids are really well educated is a great feeling, and yes going to a great school and loving learning does of course make a student happier.

It would be interesting to hear what you spunk your money on?

I think you could collapse all the threads and state "this is so unfair, wealthier children than mine will be more privileged than mine!", which is quite the statement from someone with children in private schools.

If the private schools chose to they could make some savings and reduce fees to compensate for the vat increase - like every state school has to do based on budgets - private education is the real reason our state education is so poor and should be banned in my opinion - if everyone used state schools they would have to improve

Well I've read your post and guess what?

I still agree with VAT on private school fees.

I don’t think private education should be banned but if people can’t afford the vat they couldn’t afford it in the first place. It’s become ridiculous.

Hang on. You would not have even looked at state schools were it not for the VAT increase? Really? Even though you can afford the VAT increase? How odd.

I think, completely contrary to your argument, you are not in some way representative but actually very unusual as the vast majority of parents considering private education would apply for a state school that they would be happy with at the same time as considering private, and send their child to the state school if they got in. They would want to save all the fees if possible, and not simply be prompted to look on their doorstep for an outstanding school just because of the VAT!

Your approach of only looking because of the VAT increase sounds extremely silly and very unlikely to be replicated up and down the country as you claim. You could have made your point much better without using your own circumstances actually.

Private education isn't the real reason our state education is so 'poor' (as you say it) though.

There are a myriad reasons, it's a complex

If everybody used state schools then there'd be more demand and less resources, just like the IFS said... private schools save the state money.

But she's not paying the VAT. You're paying for her DD to go to school, while she swans off on holiday.

Your approach of only looking because of the VAT increase sounds extremely silly and very unlikely to be replicated up and down the country as you claim.

No, she is not the only one. This is how a lot of PS parents feel, including myself.

Over the years my PS has put up its fees due to increasing costs, but also natural jumps as you go up the years. Every time this happens, I ask the question, is it worth it? So, at 9, 11, 13K a year, I was ok with it. For 6th Form, it was £18K. It has been worth the money. I can afford the 20% for DC2. Is my PS worth an extra £3,800 a year on top of the 18K, No it’s not! Then there’s the principle of it. Everyone demonising our kids for getting a good education. The £3,800 increase is not going on bursaries, better teachers or better facilities. It’s a stealth tax on education. It’s an extra tax you are putting on my shoulders when I already pay my fair share, and some. No, I don’t want to pay it.

DC looked at state 6th and liked it. His mates are all applying. If the VAT debate hadn’t started I doubt I would’ve looked, and my DS’s friends may not be moving, prompting him to want to look too.

For me, it’s like any other big ticket item. Yes, I can afford it, but is it value for money? It has been worth it at the price we’ve paid, but at nearly 4K more, no it’s not worth it.

Yes. I once met a couple who called it the 'Moet fund' because they used it to buy champagne. Should have been meansbtested years ago.

Yes. I once met a couple who called it the 'Moet fund' because they used it to buy champagne. Should have been meansbtested years ago.

Means tested!

Or maybe we could just go down the Finland route .

Lance Corporal's are the 2nd lowest rank in the Army and the 2nd highest amount of soldiers who claim CEA for their children.

I don’t know where you got this piece of info, but it’s incorrect. Lance Corporal is ranked OR2, and there are 20 claimants at that rank claiming CEA out of 2,800 claimants, as of April 2023.

The rank of the 2nd highest number of claimants is OR6 Sergeant with 370 claimants, closely followed by OF3 Major with 360 claimants.

questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2023-04-17/181073

t’s a stealth tax on education. It’s an extra tax you are putting on my shoulders when I already pay my fair share, and some. No, I don’t want to pay it.

DC looked at state 6th and liked it. His mates are all applying. If the VAT debate hadn’t started I doubt I would’ve looked, and my DS’s friends may not be moving, prompting him to want to look too.

Hardly 'stealthy'.

And good on your son and his mates for being more broad and open minded about education than you clearly are.

How it is a stealth tax exactly? It seems to me that there is nothing stealthy about it at all - it has been Labour policy for years, it was set out clearly in the manifesto that Labour were elected on and it was announced clearly in the Chancellor's statement. It is labelled very clearly as VAT on private school fees, so there is no lack of clarity about what it is or who will pay it.

So why would you describe it as a "stealth tax", I wonder? Is that just a clumsy way of saying that it's a tax that you don't want to pay?